Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Sci-Bay: Google Scholar plus Sci-Hub

sci-bay.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 114 posts

Re: Sci-Bay: Google Scholar plus Sci-Hub

#81

Post by pmyteh »

wbhart wrote: post #75
pmyteh wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're very much incentivised by earning a living, but given that journals either pay us nothing or charge us for publication it's not particularly relevant to this discussion. You're right that volume of pubs and cites is the important metric, and piracy helps the latter without really affecting the former. Governments and other major research funders are indeed beginning to do what you recommend and mandate various…

Whereas a lot of OA options exist, they are quite scattered. Some universities have preprint servers that are more or less maintained, with varying up times. There are multiple open access options you have to pay for, if your grant or institution has funding for it. You usually have to apply, and spend countless hours getting permission to spend the money, fill in forms, etc. It's all just too complicated. Academics…

Google Scholar is doing a reasonable job at solving the OA discoverability problem, though at the risk of us becoming dependent on it.

The deposit problem is, as you say, a lot knottier. I personally suspect a linked network of institutional repositories with a twelve month embargo may end up as the end state of the current process, which I don't think is good enough.

Sci-hub provides a sociotechnical means of doing differently, and that itself justifies its existence, I think.

Re: Sci-Bay: Google Scholar plus Sci-Hub

#82

Post by Fins »

folli wrote: post #45
Fins wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could easily come up with quite a few ethical arguments against Sci-Hub -- it's there to stick it to the "West". It has nothing to do with science, human progress, or anything as lofty. Basically, just another department of the Olgino Troll Factory. That it lets you freely access some scientific materials regardless of whether the rights owner (or authors, for that matter) agree to it or not is just a minor side-…

If the Scientific Publication Mafia is your definition of the "West", then, yes, let's stick it to the "West". Anyway, is there any proof that Sci-Hub is part of the Kremlbots, besides Alexandra Elbakyan being from Kazakhstan?

Obviously, not because of where she's from, but because she actually is anti-West.

There's an example posted below of how she is a Putin stooge. Blocking access to everyone in your own country because scientists (you know, ones she is allegedly supposed to help) because the ones who are actually involved in science supported pretty much the only foundation that funds science in Russia when Putin decided to close it...

Sure, yeah, that's who selfless altruists working for the betterment of humanity do, not Kremlin trolls. (insert sarcasm tags appropriately).

Re: Sci-Bay: Google Scholar plus Sci-Hub

#83

Post by Fins »

skrebbel wrote: post #72
SXX wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She have strong pro-Putin view and tend to ban anyone who dont agree with her, even banned all Russian IPs from Sci-Hub last year because of some political discussions on social networks. Though this doesn't change the fact project itself is very useful and obviously it's her own personality problems rather than some conspiracy.

She obviously doesn't share the NYTimes Western Standard World View, but to say that blocking all Russian IPs is pro-putin is a bit of a shortcut, no? The world isn't just "pro west" vs "pro Putin" and from what I can tell, Elbakyan has a nuanced standpoint.

Her viewpoint contradicts pretty much everything that is good and decent in the world (and really, being a communist in XXI century is just as inspiring as being a neonazi).

Sci-hub is there to "expropriate the expropriators" in Lenin's words. That there is some wider benefit to the community is completely secondary.

Re: Sci-Bay: Google Scholar plus Sci-Hub

#84

Post by Fins »

Mononokay wrote: post #49
Fins wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could easily come up with quite a few ethical arguments against Sci-Hub -- it's there to stick it to the "West". It has nothing to do with science, human progress, or anything as lofty. Basically, just another department of the Olgino Troll Factory. That it lets you freely access some scientific materials regardless of whether the rights owner (or authors, for that matter) agree to it or not is just a minor side-…

What exactly's your point? A "department of the Olgino Troll Factory" that directly benefits a vast portion of the world's population? That, again, only happened because of government—and therefore taxpayer—coin? That has no direct or indirect involvement in government, democracy, or harm of any living entity? Forgive me for not seeing the downside.

I think "directly benefits a vast portion of the world's population" is a vast exaggeration.

And when Russian scientists (real ones, not the ones who write fake dissertations for Putin's ministers) needed that benefit (science in Russia isn't exactly well funded) she yanked the access in the entire country because some of them dared to support someone Putin had targeted.

Sorry, don't see the upside or even much ethical excuse in supporting something that is demonstrably evil just because it might have a beneficial side-effect.

Re: Sci-Bay: Google Scholar plus Sci-Hub

#85

Post by SXX »

Fins wrote: post #83
skrebbel wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She obviously doesn't share the NYTimes Western Standard World View, but to say that blocking all Russian IPs is pro-putin is a bit of a shortcut, no? The world isn't just "pro west" vs "pro Putin" and from what I can tell, Elbakyan has a nuanced standpoint.

Her viewpoint contradicts pretty much everything that is good and decent in the world (and really, being a communist in XXI century is just as inspiring as being a neonazi). Sci-hub is there to "expropriate the expropriators" in Lenin's words. That there is some wider benefit to the community is completely secondary.

> Sci-hub is there to "expropriate the expropriators" in Lenin's words. That there is some wider benefit to the community is completely secondary.

While you can see my opinion on her personality above I still think you going into extremes regarding the project itself. Keep in mind that she is just end up being face of the project, but there more people working on it, and maintaining Library Genesis too, and dealing with risk of getting into prison for the service they provide to everyone.

Re: Sci-Bay: Google Scholar plus Sci-Hub

#86

Post by Mononokay »

Fins wrote: post #84
Mononokay wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly's your point? A "department of the Olgino Troll Factory" that directly benefits a vast portion of the world's population? That, again, only happened because of government—and therefore taxpayer—coin? That has no direct or indirect involvement in government, democracy, or harm of any living entity? Forgive me for not seeing the downside.

I think "directly benefits a vast portion of the world's population" is a vast exaggeration. And when Russian scientists (real ones, not the ones who write fake dissertations for Putin's ministers) needed that benefit (science in Russia isn't exactly well funded) she yanked the access in the entire country because some of them dared to support someone Putin had targeted. Sorry, don't see the upside or even much ethic…

> I think "directly benefits a vast portion of the world's population" is a vast exaggeration.

How exactly does it not? There are more college-aged people than ever, and a good portion of them wouldn't have access to a substantial amount of research without Sci-Hub. Similarly, there are more pre-collegiate students than ever who are interested in research. Both of these groups directly benefit from having it. Indirectly, the rest of the world gets more progress and a better standard of living.

> Sorry, don't see the upside or even much ethical excuse in supporting something that is demonstrably evil just because it might have a beneficial side-effect.

Demonstratably evil? I'd love for you to clarify on that.

Re: Sci-Bay: Google Scholar plus Sci-Hub

#87

Post by n4r9 »

lsh wrote: post #40

If sci-hub is going to scrape OA publishers, they could put in a bit more effort. For example this (which sucks): https://sci-bay.org/article?link=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.go... Versus the actual article: https://elifesciences.org/articles/24234

I think the issue is with sci-bay rather than sci-hub. Searching sci-hub for the title of the article brings you to the second webpage you linked.

Re: Sci-Bay: Google Scholar plus Sci-Hub

#88

Post by upvotinglurker »

Vinnl wrote: post #59
lalaland1125 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One interesting thing about sci-hub is that it's actually in a researcher's best interests to have their articles uploaded to sci-hub and widely distributed. The more people that have access to an article, the more people can build off the ideas contained within, resulting in potentially more citations and advances that the original author can take advantage of. So, you reading articles off of scihub and expanding on…

Authors are often allowed to share at least their preprints (i.e. submitted manuscripts that have not been peer reviewed yet) elsewhere, but this rarely happens in many academic disciplines. In fact, they are often required to do so by their institution, to deposit their work in its Institutional Repository, yet even that requirement is often flaunted. (In my view, this is because the personal benefit is not that cle…

Yup. Depositing in an institutional repository usually takes effort by the faculty member. SciHub bots will put it in SciHub for you!

Re: Sci-Bay: Google Scholar plus Sci-Hub

#89

Post by theptip »

fwgwgwgch wrote: post #52
theptip wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A timely request: http://slatestarcodex.com/2018/03/19/the-dark-rule-utilitari... "So this is my argument that Sci-Hub can be ethical. Universalized it would destroy the system – but the system is bad and needs to be destroyed. And although this would break the law, a very slight amount of law-breaking might be a beneficial solution to inadequate equilibria that could be endorsed even when universalized."

Are you the author? "We have no idea how to create Original movies anymore ". This is funny. It should be a sequel to tropic thunder. Aptly named. Well written article btw.

No, sorry if that wasn't clear. I'm a big fan of Scott Alexander's writing, I'm not aware of him posting on this forum though.

Re: Sci-Bay: Google Scholar plus Sci-Hub

#90

Post by balfirevic »

lsh wrote: post #38
theptip wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A timely request: http://slatestarcodex.com/2018/03/19/the-dark-rule-utilitari... "So this is my argument that Sci-Hub can be ethical. Universalized it would destroy the system – but the system is bad and needs to be destroyed. And although this would break the law, a very slight amount of law-breaking might be a beneficial solution to inadequate equilibria that could be endorsed even when universalized."

> but the system is bad and needs to be destroyed The system needs to be reformed, and that is currently happening, peacefully. Perhaps not everywhere at once and perhaps not as quickly as you might prefer, but open access publishing has made great strides in just a few short years. This doesn't liberate the millions (probably) of academic articles whose authors relinquished their copyright to big publishers, but it…

Did you read the slate star codex article? Please don't miss-characterize it, it doesn't talk at all about going Mad Max in any way. Just wanted to mention this for anyone who might read your comment and has not read the article.
Post reply on HN