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Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

theguardian.com

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Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#81
post #4

Oh man this is bad. >the platform operations manager at Facebook responsible for policing data breaches [...] warned senior executives at the company that its lax approach to data protection risked a major breach >One Facebook executive advised him against looking too deeply at how the data was being used, warning him: “Do you really want to see what you’ll find?” >They felt that it was better not to know. I found th…

Lol, "this is bad"? This is normal. I can give you an entire list of F500 companies I've worked at that have the same mindset. I've sat in meetings with F100 CIOs where they were given the same warning and shrugged it off. I've been asked before to turn off security monitoring systems because executives prefer to not know about vulnerabilities rather than know about them and not be able to fix them. The only thing sh…

>I've been asked before to turn off security monitoring systems because executives prefer to not know about vulnerabilities rather than know about them and not be able to fix them.

It's a simple cost-benefit analysis.

Implementing effective security is difficult, time-consuming, and expensive. Ignoring problems costs nothing. Unless it's clear the cost of a breach is higher than the cost of security, corporations will risk a breach every single time.

The ultimate loser here is users, who bear the burden of having their data appropriated and misused. Unless the government steps in and imposes penalties on corporations on behalf of users, they'll continue merrily offloading the risks of poor data security on the general population.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#82
post #4

Oh man this is bad. >the platform operations manager at Facebook responsible for policing data breaches [...] warned senior executives at the company that its lax approach to data protection risked a major breach >One Facebook executive advised him against looking too deeply at how the data was being used, warning him: “Do you really want to see what you’ll find?” >They felt that it was better not to know. I found th…

Lol, "this is bad"? This is normal. I can give you an entire list of F500 companies I've worked at that have the same mindset. I've sat in meetings with F100 CIOs where they were given the same warning and shrugged it off. I've been asked before to turn off security monitoring systems because executives prefer to not know about vulnerabilities rather than know about them and not be able to fix them. The only thing sh…

Please do share that list.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a matter of fact, this is news and surprising for most users of Facebook even if it's not for you. By saying that no one should be surprised, are you not taking the same condescending attitude that you're pointing out in Zuckerberg?

This is not news. (2010)[ http://www.zdnet.com/article/fbi-feds-collect-facebook-socia... ] (2010)[ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/418971/facebook-personal-... ] (2012)[ http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/05/opinion/sunday/facebook-is... ] (2011)[ https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/ne... ] (2011)[ https://techcrunch.com/2011/11/01/researchers-flood-facebook... ] (2012)[money.cnn.com/2012/03/22/…

> some sort of test for users, that verifies that they read the terms of service, as a form of consent for the user agreement.

This will only happen if terms of service get vastly shorter, or if a law is passed that forces it. I would bet that any such measure would absolutely destroy user signup metrics, which means that not only do companies have no financial incentive to take such measures, but they also have an active financial disincentive to make the "I read the TOS, let me sign up now" process any more complicated than they absolutely must.

I'm also pretty sure that the everyday user would be pissed about that additional barrier to entry.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#84
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a matter of fact, this is news and surprising for most users of Facebook even if it's not for you. By saying that no one should be surprised, are you not taking the same condescending attitude that you're pointing out in Zuckerberg?

Well, it is extremely naive to think that Facebook does not use all the data they get about you. Then again, most people are very naive about this kind of everyday technology.

It's both naivety and lack of understanding, which as I've said before is by far the #1 problem with getting people to want more privacy.

It's really not that they "don't care" about privacy, even if they themselves think that's what it is. They usually say that because they don't understand the 1,000 horrific ways in which that data about them could be exploited, from personal blackmail situations, to identity fraud, to manipulating elections, to using it against them in court in a possible future conflict with law enforcement, and in many other situations.

I've seen people who are typically quite "anti-privacy" because "they want to benefit from Alexa, Google Assistant" and other such gimmicks, and "aren't scared" if Google or Amazon holds their data, because after all it's not the government holding it (ha! good one).

But now they've deleted their Facebook accounts, because they're finally beginning to understand the implications of these companies holding all of this data about them and how it could be abused. And it's still early days. It's only going to get worse from here, as we see more such abuses using Facebook, Google, Amazon's data, carriers', and other data hoarders' data.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#85
post #3

What's utterly horrifying about this whole thing is how the media is acting as if this is some sort of surprise. Like what did you think was happening at a company collecting data about billions of people? Especially at a company that has a CEO who is famous for calling its own users dumb fu * * s? A company that experimented on at risk teens. Like come on. --edit--- Or lordy, didn't expect this comment to blow up th…

> What's utterly horrifying about this whole thing is how the media is acting as if this is some sort of surprise

I agree. A couple of generations ago the media was much more combative and willing to take on the powers that be (and each other). By this time most media outlets would have been saying "told you so (many times)". Unfortunately, now media mostly follows trends and competes on beauty of their talking heads, which is a lot safer than, say, investigating slavery or organized crime.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#86
post #15
post #3

What's utterly horrifying about this whole thing is how the media is acting as if this is some sort of surprise. Like what did you think was happening at a company collecting data about billions of people? Especially at a company that has a CEO who is famous for calling its own users dumb fu * * s? A company that experimented on at risk teens. Like come on. --edit--- Or lordy, didn't expect this comment to blow up th…

Just so the quote [2004] isn't out of context: Zuckerberg: I have over 4,000 emails, pictures, addresses, SNS [Friend]: What? How'd you manage that one? Zuckerberg: People just submitted it. Zuckerberg: I don't know why. Zuckerberg: They "trust me" Zuckerberg: Dumb fucks

I mean this is HN not Reddit, so I expect most people to know the context of that comment by now (on this site) and his apology and explanation of it.

On Reddit the normal person can be forgiven for not knowing the full context of quote, but this quote has come up on HN many times over many years.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#87

Can we not let this become framed as a "breach"? No systems were compromised. Nothing of Facebook's was accessed that wasn't supposed to be accessed. This was data intentionally exposed by Facebook , just exfiltrated and given to an entity whom Facebook hadn't authorized. This is simply the extent to which we've permitted these Internet giants to collect information about us. It's business as usual. Edit: To clarify,…

I hope you are saying that this is worse than a simple breach, not that it is a non-issue.

Good call. Edited to clarify.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#88
post #9
post #4

Oh man this is bad. >the platform operations manager at Facebook responsible for policing data breaches [...] warned senior executives at the company that its lax approach to data protection risked a major breach >One Facebook executive advised him against looking too deeply at how the data was being used, warning him: “Do you really want to see what you’ll find?” >They felt that it was better not to know. I found th…

Isn't that just part of FB's culture? Didn't the Zuck start out by scraping Harvard's student registry?

And the website's original purpose was for upperclassmen to rate the hotness of incoming female freshmen.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#89
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it is extremely naive to think that Facebook does not use all the data they get about you. Then again, most people are very naive about this kind of everyday technology.

That's just your perspective. I live in the Germany where we have very strong data protection laws. Is it natural for people to assume that these laws are broken at such a large scale? And that abuse goes completely unchallenged for years?

> Is it natural for people to assume that these laws are broken at such a large scale?

Across international boundaries where those laws may be difficult to enforce because other countries are not in sync with them? Hell yes. Call me cynical, but...

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#90
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a matter of fact, this is news and surprising for most users of Facebook even if it's not for you. By saying that no one should be surprised, are you not taking the same condescending attitude that you're pointing out in Zuckerberg?

> and surprising for most users of Facebook Yeah, but let's be honest, they're dumb fu * * s.

Why do we censor words? Aren't we all adults here? Does HN have a policy about this?
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