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Announcing Microsoft DirectX Raytracing

blogs.msdn.microsoft.com

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Re: Announcing Microsoft DirectX Raytracing

#81

Post by pixel_fcker »

bhouston wrote: post #38
jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the above is accurrate I think it's a bit one sided. Physically Based Rendering has become the dominant approach in VFX because it's a huge simplification and productivity boost. Integrating tons of special purpose hacks into one renderer isn't just hard for the renderer devs, the control parameters exposed to artists become an absolute nightmare. Combing the PBR perspective with raytracing greatly simplifies b…

I agree that PBR is awesome, but PBR doesn't slow things down, it is just a replacement by less accurate equations (BlinnPhong ambient,diffuse,specular) with better equations (GGX albeido, roughness, metallic, clearcoat, sheen) that are generally the same complexity. It is sort of neutral on render time for the most part. In time, I am sure we will be in a raytraced future if GPU trends continue.

Physically based rendering is _not_ the Disney shader and renaming your diffuse maps to albedo because it sounds more sciencey.

It’s about the wholesale switch to a fully path-traced framework with a consistent mathematical foundation as opposed to the layered system of hacks and chained prepasses that prevailed in the early 2000’s

Re: Announcing Microsoft DirectX Raytracing

#82

Post by agumonkey »

make3 wrote: post #53
agumonkey wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the days of ML based AI, seeing raytracing + revolution is both refreshing and funny :)

Actually, raytracing is a domain with strong potential for AI, as there is a lot of work using ML models to de-noise ray-traced scenes in real time. Edit: Yeah, NVidia actually just announced a big project on that exact subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkhBlmKtEAk

Ha, I would never have guessed this use case. Very fortunate for Nvidia to provide both GPU and NPU cores for the task :)

Re: Announcing Microsoft DirectX Raytracing

#83

Post by pasta »

oh_sigh wrote: post #15
bhouston wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In path tracing ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_tracing ), which is what the VFX industry uses primarily, both directions happen.

Does anyone use path tracing for live renderings? I think that is the question.

There is a nice Quake 2 demo showing various settings: https://youtu.be/x19sIltR0qU

But I think we are still some time away from real time noiseless path tracing. Although more clever denoising filters for the first samples are getting much better.

And ofcourse you can decide to use a very low number of bounces. This will give a darker inacurate result but still can give a feel of global illumonation.

Re: Announcing Microsoft DirectX Raytracing

#84

Post by pixel_fcker »

gt_ wrote: post #60
jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the above is accurrate I think it's a bit one sided. Physically Based Rendering has become the dominant approach in VFX because it's a huge simplification and productivity boost. Integrating tons of special purpose hacks into one renderer isn't just hard for the renderer devs, the control parameters exposed to artists become an absolute nightmare. Combing the PBR perspective with raytracing greatly simplifies b…

Non-3D artists should note that “Physically Based Rendering” or PBR is merely a standard for defining materials. It is becoming something of an industry standard in real-time and offline rendering workflows. From a real-time(games) perspective, PBR represents a leap up in realism but from an offline(VFX) perspective, it offers no improvement in realism, and often a downgrade from past norms if implemented with no add…

It actually means a lot more than that in offline VFX. It was the games industry that decided it meant “use the Disney shader”.

Re: Announcing Microsoft DirectX Raytracing

#85

Post by WorldMaker »

agumonkey wrote: post #82
make3 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, raytracing is a domain with strong potential for AI, as there is a lot of work using ML models to de-noise ray-traced scenes in real time. Edit: Yeah, NVidia actually just announced a big project on that exact subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkhBlmKtEAk

Ha, I would never have guessed this use case. Very fortunate for Nvidia to provide both GPU and NPU cores for the task :)

I was also wondering if the brief tangent in the article here that the DXR used more Compute than Graphics cores (given availability) may also indicate that they are using something of an ML approach to the Raytracing renderer here?

Obviously, it's hard to extrapolate from just a press release, but with Microsoft's big ML kick of the last few years, breakthroughs in ML steps in raytracing might seem like a reason for the press release.

Re: Announcing Microsoft DirectX Raytracing

#86

Post by gt_ »

pixel_fcker wrote: post #84
gt_ wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-3D artists should note that “Physically Based Rendering” or PBR is merely a standard for defining materials. It is becoming something of an industry standard in real-time and offline rendering workflows. From a real-time(games) perspective, PBR represents a leap up in realism but from an offline(VFX) perspective, it offers no improvement in realism, and often a downgrade from past norms if implemented with no add…

It actually means a lot more than that in offline VFX. It was the games industry that decided it meant “use the Disney shader”.

I updated my comment. I guess I need to read up on that. I read of so many areas in which PBR stops short in offline contexts, like using constant BRDFs which is a little unnecessary with offline rendering. What am I not understanding there?

Re: Announcing Microsoft DirectX Raytracing

#88

Post by bhouston »

TheCoreh wrote: post #65
ahartmetz wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Screen space ambient occlusion, if using SAO, is amazing. Yeah, no. It still looks like "draw a blurry black halo around edges and call it a day" ambient occlusion.

You can combine SSAO with (very coarse) global illumination probes to achieve a very convincing effect. DOOM (2016) is a good example of this: http://www.adriancourreges.com/blog/2016/09/09/doom-2016-gra... SSAO has been overused/applied poorly (just like the brown 'bloom'/color grading effect in mid-2000s games), which is why people often dislike it.

There is also hierarchical sao

Re: Announcing Microsoft DirectX Raytracing

#89

Post by drb91 »

bhouston wrote: post #7

The only issue is that a lot of this is already possible in the current renderers at a reduced cost. - Soft shadows work in WebGL fairly well using PCSS: https://clara.io/player/v2/8f49e7c3-7c5e-43f0-a09c-33a55bb1b... - Translucency can be faked effectively using a few different methods. https://clara.io/view/5c7d28c0-91d7-4432-a131-3e6fd657a042 - Screen space ambient occlusion, if using SAO, is amazing. SAO test: ht…

What makes you think people are rushing out to replace all these effects? At first blush this doesn't seemed directly aimed at video games.

Re: Announcing Microsoft DirectX Raytracing

#90

Post by kbwt »

AboutTheWhisles wrote: post #66
jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the above is accurrate I think it's a bit one sided. Physically Based Rendering has become the dominant approach in VFX because it's a huge simplification and productivity boost. Integrating tons of special purpose hacks into one renderer isn't just hard for the renderer devs, the control parameters exposed to artists become an absolute nightmare. Combing the PBR perspective with raytracing greatly simplifies b…

I don't think pure raytracing and ray traced global illumination are going to be adopted by many games if there is still such a giant problem with noise. That is far from a solved problem, even in multi-hour per from visual effects renders.

This paper shows pretty good results from essentially throwing a RNN at it:

[1] http://research.nvidia.com/sites/default/files/publications/...

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