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Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

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Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#81

Post by Charuru »

jrwoodruff wrote: post #38

I just disagree with this. I think complexity is laziness on the part of the designer, the marketing team and the management team that probably demands their products appear complex. For instance, the washing machine that needs two buttons but has 20. Two buttons on a washing machine, if designed well, is a great marketing opportunity. BUT you would have to design it with a way to SHOW the user all of the things that…

I love Apple as much as any other programmer, but we have to remember that they lost the Mac vs PC wars.

There is a still popular perception that Macs are for frivolous hippies and PCs is what real people use to do real work. Obviously it's different for programmers and many other people, but we're talking about mainstream marketing here.

They did great in the mobile segment because of extremely weak competition and revolutionary new products. If Blackberry had a non-ass touchscreen device out before the iPhone I doubt Apple's simplicity would've had been effective counter-marketing.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#82

Post by lepton »

drv wrote: post #79
modoc wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microwave with just a dial: http://www.amazon.com/Dial-Microwave-1000W-15-0357-Category/... (there are many more). Although for what it's worth, my microwave has a "Popcorn" button that makes perfect popcorn every time. I don't have a land line so I can't help you there. Although I always know where my cell phone is. Every brand of garage door open seems to offer a single button remote ( http://www.amazon.com/Genie-G…

My wife's Audi A4 had an analog clock, although her new car has digital. I STRONGLY prefer digital. Setting the analog one was always a pain, and it didn't auto adjust for daylight savings time, like the new digital one does. I prefer digital clocks as well, but a car adjusting for DST? That seems like a recipe for more complexity, not less. What happens when the DST rules change? Then, instead of manually adjusting…

I'm sure this can be patched after manufacture--the logic is probably on a flash prom. I would hope the dealership takes care of this during a regular service.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#83

Post by jrwoodruff »

api wrote: post #66
jrwoodruff wrote: post #38

I just disagree with this. I think complexity is laziness on the part of the designer, the marketing team and the management team that probably demands their products appear complex. For instance, the washing machine that needs two buttons but has 20. Two buttons on a washing machine, if designed well, is a great marketing opportunity. BUT you would have to design it with a way to SHOW the user all of the things that…

Complexity is also laziness on the part of the customer. The story about the customer who thought a product wasn't up to par because it was simple, tried it, and then found that it did everything needed is illustrative of this. Marketing rules in business, but that's really too bad. It's too bad because marketing is pandering to the lowest common denominator. If someone wants something stupid, marketing means indulgi…

I don't disagree with this, but I think that customer 'laziness' is really just people relying on what they know, and is something that can be shifted. Marketing may never uplift anything, nor can it. However, it can influence how people perceive something new.

Marketing, if done well, can transform a radical design or idea into a positive, must-have device. I hate to keep using apple, but I can't think of another company that does this as well as they do.

Marketing on the product development end of things, however, is another story. On this side it is certainly true that marketing, unfortunately, seems to rule and often produces lack-luster, pedestrian results.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#84

Post by drblast »

randallsquared wrote: post #61
drblast wrote: post #49

Uggh. I have a microwave that must be designed by the Koreans in this article. If I want to heat something up for thirty seconds, I have to wade through four menus and sub-menus: Express cook (ha ha)-> 30 seconds-> OK-> Start People who designed consumer microwaves have obviously never used one. I have NEVER cooked anything in the microwave that should have involved more than a single button press. If the cooking is…

Wow. Every microwave I've used in years has had a "add 30 seconds" button that works regardless of whether it's adding to an existing countdown or starting for 30 seconds from zero. However, it also doesn't take long for me to learn the microwave settings for my preferred popcorn brand/type for a new microwave: the one built-in at my apartment requires 2:40, and the new one at my work 2:30. I usually put those in dir…

I guess so. I'm not really opposed to features; they're cheap and they add value for some people.

My beef is that the most common operation (heating something up quickly) should be really simple to do. I thought this was a fundamental idea in UI design, but it's broken on appliances everywhere.

Here's how it should work: numbers 1-10 represent commonly used cook times. 15, 30, 45, 60, 75, 90, 120 seconds...I hit one of those and the microwaves waits two seconds and then goes.

If I hit multiple numbers in rapid succession, I can enter an exact time.

The only other buttons on there should allow the functions you want too. A power level button, add 30 seconds, and the more advanced scheduling option that lets you set multiple times and power levels.

All options, which are almost always set-and-forget, should be accessible through a single button. My car does this well; I can change what I want displayed on the dashboard and what color it's in using two buttons. It's not a quick interface, but I only have to use it when I change the car battery, which is hardly ever.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#85

Post by kscaldef »

edw519 wrote: post #51
qeorge wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are valid complaints, but they actually back up the author's point - You still bought the complex-looking item. That it annoys you now is irrelevant (in the author's view). He posits that even though you know you only need 2 buttons for your garage door opener, you'd still buy one with 5 buttons before you bought one with 2.

No, I didn't buy any of these things because I wanted to. Consumers don't have much choice any more. I defy you to go out and find any of these things: - a microwave with a single dial - a cell phone that rings on your land line when you're home - a garage door opener with one button - a dishwasher with a status display - a car with an analog clock - a TV with an on/off switch and a channel dial OP jumped to an unsub…

At least some BMWs have, or had, analog clocks: http://rcaslis.xkill.net/vehicles/1998_BMW_M_Roadster/n02.jp...

Just twist the knob in the center to set the time.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#86

Post by kscaldef »

Charuru wrote: post #81
jrwoodruff wrote: post #38

I just disagree with this. I think complexity is laziness on the part of the designer, the marketing team and the management team that probably demands their products appear complex. For instance, the washing machine that needs two buttons but has 20. Two buttons on a washing machine, if designed well, is a great marketing opportunity. BUT you would have to design it with a way to SHOW the user all of the things that…

I love Apple as much as any other programmer, but we have to remember that they lost the Mac vs PC wars. There is a still popular perception that Macs are for frivolous hippies and PCs is what real people use to do real work. Obviously it's different for programmers and many other people, but we're talking about mainstream marketing here. They did great in the mobile segment because of extremely weak competition and…

There is a still popular perception that Macs are for frivolous hippies and PCs is what real people use to do real work.

I'd tend to disagree. That might have been the attitude a decade ago, but today I think it goes more like "Sure, Macs are nice, but I can't afford one". At least that's what I hear most frequently from people I know.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#87

Post by kenjackson »

riffraff wrote: post #13
jacquesm wrote: post #10

I think it is possible to have a complicated product that is made easy to use and has extra features that get 'exposed' over time for your power users to find, preferably just when they need them the first time. Complexity per-se has nothing to do with it, (over) complex problems fail just as fast as overly simplified products. The trick is to match what your application is offering to the user in such a way that the…

this was my first thought too (and there are plenty of washing machines with a couple of buttons and the rest hidden behind a panel to prove it, I thought). But this is also addressed in the article, in the addendum part: """ One person truly misunderstood because he advocated hiding the extra controls, thus preserving the apparent simplicity. Sorry: it is the apparent complexity that drives the sale. """

I think the OP misunderstands what drives the sale in these cases. It's not apparent complexity, its apparent functionality.

The problem is that the way to make functionality apparent at the point of sale is to expose it, hence the complexity. But I think as people begin to realize that functionality can lie beneath the surface, as Zed points out, you'll see simplicity with high functionality become more popular.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#88

Post by kenjackson »

Terretta wrote: post #36
akshayubhat wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple Mac's aren't a success considering their market share. [Personal opinions are irrelevant] Your argument is fallacious: iPod evolved to address the feature issue: so from a single Classic iPod you now have shuffle, nano and touch. even within each type say iPod nano there has been considerable change. Check out the latest nano and the earlier one, adding touchscreen is same as adding complexity. It's probably yo…

> Apple Mac's aren't a success considering their market share. Some companies prefer market share. Some companies prefer profit. Your definition of success is your personal opinion, which you admit is irrelevant. "While Apple only commands 7 percent of overall revenues in the PC market, its products account for 35 percent of the operating profits. None of the other manufacturers—which includes such giants as Dell, He…

But wasn't the point about popularity, not about corporate success? Because the argument was about simplicity leading to sales. Not that simplicity leads to higher margins.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#89

Post by Psyonic »

zeteo wrote: post #33

I think this may have something to do with conspicuous consumption: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspicuous_consumption Your new toaster might have too many buttons and displays for you to use effectively, but it will surely impress the heck out of the next visitor. In fact, it's arguable that conspicuous consumption is the _only_ reason why you'd buy a $250 toaster with a dozen buttons instead of of a $20 toaster w…

I wouldn't buy a $250 toaster either, but if it actually lasts more than 6 months, that'd be one reason.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#90

Post by zeteo »

Psyonic wrote: post #89
zeteo wrote: post #33

I think this may have something to do with conspicuous consumption: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspicuous_consumption Your new toaster might have too many buttons and displays for you to use effectively, but it will surely impress the heck out of the next visitor. In fact, it's arguable that conspicuous consumption is the _only_ reason why you'd buy a $250 toaster with a dozen buttons instead of of a $20 toaster w…

I wouldn't buy a $250 toaster either, but if it actually lasts more than 6 months, that'd be one reason.

I'm not sure what the standard warranty is on toasters, but for this $17 model you can buy a 2-year warranty for an additional $6 (total: $23 for 2 years of guaranteed toasting):

http://www.amazon.com/Proctor-Silex-22605-2-Slice-Toaster/dp...

Also, I would think that fewer parts = longer time between failures.

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