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A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

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Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#81

Post by horsecaptin »

3pt14159 wrote: post #72
aldoushuxley001 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually in this case the answer is fairly simple: it's corruption. Most people living in Ontario or Quebec know that the construction industry there is dominated by the mob. You gotta be real careful not to step over the wrong people's feet, especially if you're going after public contracts. So, suffice to say, there is little real competition because most new competitors get literally threatened for their lives if…

I don’t know about the rest of Ontario, but this is 100% not true for the Toronto area. I used to be in the industry and I saw something shady only once and it was very, very minor. My brother is also a higher up at Ellis Don and he complains about concrete trucks getting stuck in traffic, not mob grift.

I know current senior engineers that see plenty of corruption and shady practice, including on road construction on a regular basis in Ontario, and yes, the Toronto area.

Construction companies routinely don't build each layer of road up to code. Thus potholes appear much sooner than they should.

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#83

Post by hugodahl »

I've often wondered, especially as I cringe, clench and brace as I encounter another pothole (or chasm) why this is still an issue? Particularly since there are very well known and enduring roadways capable of handling much heavier loads and stresses - specifically airport runways and taxiways.

I can't recall ever seeing a runway shutdown abd inoperable for months on end due to "road work". I can think of a few reasons around why this isn't a thing, most of them being human factor (no money on building something I won't get paid again to fix later). The only "true" reason I can fathom is that runways are much more expensive to build. Order(s?) of magnitude more expensive.

Am I way off the mark, or is there something I've clearly missed?

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#84

Post by mc32 »

I'm curious how this machine addresses seams in the roadway. Obviously this machine isn't 4-lanes wide, so how to they prevent potholes from forming between seams (often seams are aligned with lanes but they still end up allowing cracks to form.

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#85

Post by tmm »

hugodahl wrote: post #83

I've often wondered, especially as I cringe, clench and brace as I encounter another pothole (or chasm) why this is still an issue? Particularly since there are very well known and enduring roadways capable of handling much heavier loads and stresses - specifically airport runways and taxiways. I can't recall ever seeing a runway shutdown abd inoperable for months on end due to "road work". I can think of a few reaso…

> I can't recall ever seeing a runway shutdown abd inoperable for months on end due to "road work".

I’m guessing you haven’t flown through Phoenix recently? They have had a runway closed for repaving (might be reopened now) since early January.

Runways are generally concrete rather than asphalt and there are plenty of concrete highways. It tends to be a louder and less comfortable surface to drive on and when repairs do need to happen, they’re more disruptive than a simple asphalt resurfacing. I’m sure there are other reasons to prefer asphalt, but I’m not a civil engineer.

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#86

Post by fotbr »

hugodahl wrote: post #83

I've often wondered, especially as I cringe, clench and brace as I encounter another pothole (or chasm) why this is still an issue? Particularly since there are very well known and enduring roadways capable of handling much heavier loads and stresses - specifically airport runways and taxiways. I can't recall ever seeing a runway shutdown abd inoperable for months on end due to "road work". I can think of a few reaso…

Two years ago (maybe three?), they closed one of the runways at the local international airport for the better part of a year for repairs (and partial replacement).

That particular runway was poured in the late 50s or early 60s, and last had major work in the 90s. So it happens, just not on the every-two-or-three-years schedule that it does for roads (or yearly, depending on where you are).

The obvious difference, at least around here, is that runways are made of concrete - lots of it, each batch truckload tested as it is poured (slump tests, anyway), while roads are made from asphalt, as little of it as the DoT will allow, and as far as I can tell, zero quality control testing.

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#87

Post by DennisP »

zhdc1 wrote: post #57
DennisP wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or (3) the paving companies are happy with planned obsolescence, and the deciding customers are politicians who will move on before the new roads go bad, and won't be criticized anyway for authorizing the same methods everyone else uses. No individual involved has a strong incentive to make things better. Unless, of course, constituents start making an issue of it with their local representatives :)

I don't get the impression that paving companies are around long enough (or have anywhere enough influence) to intentionally rig the system in this way. Infrastructure is absolutely neglected in the US and Canada - municipal and state/provincial governments try to get away with as being cheap as possible, and deferring as much maintenance as possible, and... well, you get what you pay for.

I don't think they're intentionally rigging the system. I just think they have no particular motivation to make roads last longer, so they don't bother.

(If a longer-lasting road had a much higher cost, then it'd clearly not be their issue at all, but the solution in the article sounds like it'd cost about the same.)

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#88

Post by colanderman »

donatj wrote: post #59

Reminds me of this section[2] from "How Engineers Create the World" by Bill Hammack - an interesting but perhaps scattered read. Well, a pothole is not just a technological thing, it's also a political entity. Usually we think of European nations as steeped in governmental regulation, and the United States as a free market, but actually the opposite occurs in building roads. In the United States the government sets s…

Reformatted for those on mobile:

> Well, a pothole is not just a technological thing, it's also a political entity. Usually we think of European nations as steeped in governmental regulation, and the United States as a free market, but actually the opposite occurs in building roads. In the United States the government sets specifications and asks contractors to meet them. Once done with the road they have no more responsibility.

> Contrast this to France where the contractors must come up with their own specifications and guarantee their work. This means that if a pothole developers the contractor has to fix it. But in the united States, once the job is done, as long as it has met specifications, the contractor is no longer liable.

(Please don't use code blocks for quotations.)

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#89

Post by goodcanadian »

brianbreslin wrote: post #42
pg_bot wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that lack of adoption is likely a discovery and design problem rather than an economic one. In a free market other people can choose to enter into the contracting business. If I have a leg up on my competition (paving better roads for the same cost) I will eventually out compete people who fail to adapt to the new method. This doesn't happen immediately, but you can't fool everyone forever if there trul…

Great points. We don't know if he is manufacturing these pavers or licensing his tech to others. We also don't know how much more his are than the regular Komatsu or john deere ones. What if the vendors buy the existing companies because they provide superior service?

I suspect nobody is manufacturing these machines. Unfortunately, "Build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door," is completely wrong. It is one thing to develop a new technology, but another thing entirely to convince someone to manufacture, and another thing again to convince anyone to buy.

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#90

Post by donatj »

colanderman wrote: post #88
donatj wrote: post #59

Reminds me of this section[2] from "How Engineers Create the World" by Bill Hammack - an interesting but perhaps scattered read. Well, a pothole is not just a technological thing, it's also a political entity. Usually we think of European nations as steeped in governmental regulation, and the United States as a free market, but actually the opposite occurs in building roads. In the United States the government sets s…

Reformatted for those on mobile: > Well, a pothole is not just a technological thing, it's also a political entity. Usually we think of European nations as steeped in governmental regulation, and the United States as a free market, but actually the opposite occurs in building roads. In the United States the government sets specifications and asks contractors to meet them. Once done with the road they have no more res…

I like that you copied it typos and all ;)

I retyped it from the screenshot on my way out the door at work and now note a number of mistakes.

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