Schools are safer than they were in the 90s • Hacker News Board

Re: Schools are safer than they were in the 90s

#81

Post by mieseratte » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 7:36 PM UTC

theluketaylor wrote: post #56

mieseratte wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CANADA: jump in the water Canada has a comparably high-rate of gun ownership and yet a substantially lower murder rate. I've seen plenty of pissing and moaning on firearm forums about their restrictions, more severe than the US', but one could reasonably carry out a massacre up there just as much as one can in the states. It's not the guns. It's us.

Our most right wing national newspaper did a look at many mass shootings in the US and how that same scenario would play out in Canada. The overall conclusion is that not all the shootings could have been prevented by Canadian firearms laws, but many would have been. Interesting read. http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/would-canadian-gun-laws-...

That's a great article, but something has me doubt that a lot of the "probably not" incidents would have been stopped is that they often hinge on the RCMP having a mere suspicion.

> The shooter, army psychiatrist Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, had been investigated by federal authorities for links to terrorism. This would likely be enough for the RCMP to restrict his ability

When a PAL is denied, does one have the right to appeal or is that the final word on the matter? In the US the NICS background check has something similar, the Delay. If, in the course of your FFL background check, the Feds think you're up to something they issue a Delay which can be followed up with a Deny or the go-ahead to sell the firearm. One can appeal a Deny, however there is no way of handling a Delay which is particularly annoying since something as benign as having a similar name to a known criminal can result in one.

Re: Schools are safer than they were in the 90s

#82

Post by microcolonel » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 7:42 PM UTC

sunsunsunsun wrote: post #13

SonicSoul wrote: post #8

it’s unlikely that any of them will prevent mass school shootings “The thing to remember is that these are extremely rare events, and no matter what you can come up with to prevent it, the shooter will have a workaround,” Fox said, adding that over the past 35 years, there have been only five cases in which someone ages 18 to 20 used an assault rifle in a mass shooting. this seems weak. if shootings are rare events s…

Also, how come the incidence of these types of shootings are so much lower in other parts of the world if there is no policy that will help prevent them?

> Also, how come the incidence of these types of shootings are so much lower in other parts of the world if there is no policy that will help prevent them?

Well, the short answer is that deaths from incidents like this are actually more common, considerably more common, in some other parts of the developed world[0]. The majority of U.S. mass shootings result in no deaths, the overwhelming majority result in one or fewer. Only about 70 of the 474 or so mass shootings in 2017 were also classifiable as "mass murders" (single incidents resulting in four or more unjustified killings).

[0]: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jun/...

Re: Schools are safer than they were in the 90s

#83

Post by CompanionCuuube » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 7:46 PM UTC

uurrnn wrote: post #80

verylittlemeat wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a society we make decisions like this all the time. How about cars?

Cars provide a much more useful function to society.

Alcohol and tobacco don't.

Re: Schools are safer than they were in the 90s

#84

Post by CompanionCuuube » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 7:58 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #44

ghufran_syed wrote: post #33

Perhaps they should do a case control study - places that had mass shootings vs places that didn’t? I’m pretty sure there have been no mass shootings at gun shows or gun clubs, I wonder if there might be some relationship there worth exploring?

Interestingly the NRA national convention reduces gun injuries everywhere else : https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-28/for-these...

"In relative terms, the decline is small -- accounting for one fewer injury for every 300,000 Americans."

Re: Schools are safer than they were in the 90s

#85

Post by CompanionCuuube » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 8:23 PM UTC

Tech-Noir wrote: post #47

Analysis of two decades in the UK, where in 1997 they banned video games and mental illness: 1996: 16 children and their teacher shot dead 1997-2018: 0 shot dead

Analysis of nearly two decades in the US where they banned planes and Muslims:

2001: 2,996 people killed in plane attacks

2002-2018: 0 people killed in plane attacks

Re: Schools are safer than they were in the 90s

#86

Post by craftyguy » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 8:27 PM UTC

CompanionCuuube wrote: post #70

craftyguy wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue heart disease being the leading cause of death in many 'developed' countries strongly indicates that we, as a society, do not have control over it.

We don't, or we can't? As a country, we can do things to force people to avoid the risk factors and take mitigating actions.

> we can do things to force people to avoid the risk factors and take mitigating actions.

Just like we forced people to stop drinking during prohibition, and we force petty criminals all the time to stop doing bad stuff once caught?

We'd like to think it's the former ("we can, but we don't"), but the reality is we can't.

Re: Schools are safer than they were in the 90s

#87

Post by CompanionCuuube » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 9:03 PM UTC

craftyguy wrote: post #86

CompanionCuuube wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't, or we can't? As a country, we can do things to force people to avoid the risk factors and take mitigating actions.

> we can do things to force people to avoid the risk factors and take mitigating actions. Just like we forced people to stop drinking during prohibition, and we force petty criminals all the time to stop doing bad stuff once caught? We'd like to think it's the former ("we can, but we don't"), but the reality is we can't.

What you're saying is that we should be giving up many human lives every year to maintain the status quo?

Re: Schools are safer than they were in the 90s

#88

Post by allthenews » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 9:28 PM UTC

craftyguy wrote: post #50

allthenews wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thesis is that, because these events are so rare, the cost of prevention outweighs the benefit. Yes, it sounds cold, but human life has a certain value, and just like any rational decision, we have to consider in some objective manner whether conceivable preventative measures are worthwhile. >just because assault rifles were rarely used in past 35 years in what way does that influence a future projection Do you n…

So the point you are trying to make is that it's worth giving up a few human lives every year to maintain the status quo?

How is it that people are so convinced that guns serve no purpose other than murder of innocent children? This isn't just about obstinately maintaining some "status quo" out of spite for one political party. Guns are tools, and the vast majority of gun owners use them responsibly and more often to positive effect.

Let's put it this way: how many incidents of violence did you NOT hear about because simply brandishing a gun was enough to diffuse a situation or deter a would be criminal?

Please do not presume that this is some black and white issue where simply banning guns would solve all problems with gun violence. The implication that 2A supporters are all psychotic "gun nuts" who choose guns over innocent lives is a slanderous , oversimplified strawman, which only serves to further entrench divisiveness.

Re: Schools are safer than they were in the 90s

#89

Post by jdanp » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 2:40 AM UTC

dvanduzer wrote: post #42

jdanp wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually crime rates in Australia and the USA decreased similarly in the period following Australia's gun ban, despite America's inaction.

Overall crime rate in the US (everywhere?) has decreased since the 1970s or so. There is speculation it had to do with lead paint. There has not been a single "mass shooting" in Australia since the gun ban. In the US, mass shootings decreased after the Federal Assault Weapons Ban of 1994, and then increased after it expired 2004.

List of Australian mass shootings since the gun ban https://i.redd.it/i0ovzrr4bgj01.jpg

Re: Schools are safer than they were in the 90s

#90

Post by DrScump » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 8:22 AM UTC

CompanionCuuube wrote: post #84

pjc50 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly the NRA national convention reduces gun injuries everywhere else : https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-28/for-these...

"In relative terms, the decline is small -- accounting for one fewer injury for every 300,000 Americans."

But there are 1,100 times as many Americans.

"The difference in his study amounts to a reduction of several hundred injuries per convention per year"