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Regrets of the Dying

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Re: Regrets of the Dying

#81

Post by run4yourlives »

hugh3 wrote: post #68
hbt wrote: post #29

I read the book "meditations" from Marcus Aurelius recently. It's very interesting to note that the human condition hasn't changed that much. Here are a couple of quotes related to the article. 1. "How much time he saves who does not look to see what his neighbor says or does or thinks." -- Marcus Aurelius 2. Work will always be considered a waste of time when you think about it later if you don't enjoy doing it now.…

"How much time he saves who does not look to see what his neighbor says or does or thinks." -- Marcus Aurelius Y'see, this is the problem I have with Marcus Aurelius. It must have been relatively easy for him to not care what other people think. For those of us who aren't the goddamn Emperor of Rome, well, we occasionally have the sorts of practical issues which didn't affect him so much. I was also recently reading…

Emperors often died at the end of their terms, often only a few years, and often because they did something to piss someone off.

His saying that from his position is a lot more difficult than you saying it from yours I can assure you.

And not caring what people think (or limiting how their thoughts affect your actions) is probably the biggest secret in life, period.

Re: Regrets of the Dying

#82

Post by bpyne »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #36
lachyg wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What advice would you have given your 17 year old self? (I am 16)

Here are some things I wish I understood when I was 17: 1. Being "unique" doesn't mean trying to alienate everyone else. Many of the people that you meet, and who seem simple or uninteresting, have a great story to tell or a special talent to share. So, trying to "fit in" a little bit and getting to know lots of people doesn't make you a lesser person in any way; it makes you greater for the broader perspectives that…

Great list. Just a few more items I wish I'd realized at 17.

1. When you go to college study something you're interested in. I studied math and found it a challenge but I wasn't passionate about it. If I had a do-over, I'd double in computer science and music.

2. Keep in mind that whatever you choose to study has a "business" side to it. The business side is how you earn a living in that industry. Go into your chosen field understanding how you will earn a living. Reaching out to established people is the best way to learn about it and develop a network to help you.

3. My parents have their own issues but they are "normal", meaning not systematic abusers of any kind. They did understand what I was going through at 17 - I just felt I was unique.

PG wrote a fantastic essay that I wish my 17 yo self had read. (http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html) Of particular note is the following paragraph.

"Teenage kids used to have a more active role in society. In pre-industrial times, they were all apprentices of one sort or another, whether in shops or on farms or even on warships. They weren't left to create their own societies. They were junior members of adult societies."

Re: Regrets of the Dying

#83

Post by nimms »

neilk wrote: post #54

Sometimes I think that I might be one of the few people who will be on my deathbed, regretting not working harder. When I look back on my life, it's mostly been unfinished projects, or good ideas that didn't get far. I've always been told how much potential I have, and I even feel this in myself. But so far, there's not a lot to show for it. Sometimes I've spent years not doing much of anything except looking at suns…

What is causing your feeling of wasted potential? Why do you feel your potential needs to be fulfilled anymore than anyone else's? Why make yourself so unhappy because you haven't achieved greatness? One of the crazy things about the age we live in is that you're no longer just competing against the most successful person in your little neck of the wood. Because of how incredible our ability for mass communication is, we now compare ourselves to the luckiest, most beautiful and most gifted people of our age. It's almost like the media is quickening the pace of social evolution...and it's causing more social anxiety than you can poke a stick at.

Hey it doesn't matter that you're not Steve Jobs or Bob Dylan or Mahatma Gandhi...Those guys lived the jackpot of the human lottery (in terms of making a difference to the rest of us).

something I've learn't over the years is that you rarely make headway against a problem by struggling against it, in the way that you will be engulfed in quicksand the more you thrash. Generally acceptance and relaxation will bring quicker resolution...a lesson that is at odds with the modern hollywood fairy tale of one person struggling against improbable odds.

The universe is massive, we are microscopic...our achievements are ephemeral and our lifetimes are over in the blink of an eye. There are thousands of forgotten civilisations, vanished into the fog of history, taking with them the endeavours of their citizens...Happiness and inspiration come when you're not looking for them. They are not the sole domain of Hollywood or silicon valley. They really are found in everyday moments, that if you're always focusing too far in the future, or on things you don't currently have, you walk right past them.

Also, surely the image of the phantoms wandering the earth, chained to their safes is meant to convey a similar message to the article??

Re: Regrets of the Dying

#84

Post by neilk »

nimms wrote: post #83
neilk wrote: post #54

Sometimes I think that I might be one of the few people who will be on my deathbed, regretting not working harder. When I look back on my life, it's mostly been unfinished projects, or good ideas that didn't get far. I've always been told how much potential I have, and I even feel this in myself. But so far, there's not a lot to show for it. Sometimes I've spent years not doing much of anything except looking at suns…

What is causing your feeling of wasted potential? Why do you feel your potential needs to be fulfilled anymore than anyone else's? Why make yourself so unhappy because you haven't achieved greatness? One of the crazy things about the age we live in is that you're no longer just competing against the most successful person in your little neck of the wood. Because of how incredible our ability for mass communication is…

I didn't say that I was miserable!

My life is pretty great right now. To some extent I already have the life I want. I can use my skills appropriately, it does have a big impact, and my workplace is totally understanding about reshuffling work hours for a better quality of life.

My regrets are mostly about what I did or haven't done in the past. I'm in my late 30s now, and I am having to face the fact that I don't have the energy I did in my 20s. Instead my youth was wasted on wrestling with depression in various forms, causes that didn't deserve it, or companies that ultimately flushed my work product down the toilet.

Perhaps my "dent in the universe" comment makes you think I want to be Steve Jobs... not really. Actually I am convinced that if you become famous, your success is probably of the wrong kind.

Re: Regrets of the Dying

#85

Post by neilk »

SiVal wrote: post #77
neilk wrote: post #54

Sometimes I think that I might be one of the few people who will be on my deathbed, regretting not working harder. When I look back on my life, it's mostly been unfinished projects, or good ideas that didn't get far. I've always been told how much potential I have, and I even feel this in myself. But so far, there's not a lot to show for it. Sometimes I've spent years not doing much of anything except looking at suns…

Well said, neilk. I always have mixed feelings when reading about the wisdom of people who are dying. I don't doubt that they feel the way they say they feel at that point, but are their judgments relevant to how they WOULD HAVE felt for years, not weeks, back when they still had years to live? On their deathbeds, when they value family so much more than career, they wish they'd spent more time on the former, less on…

Well, I wasn't talking about a career. I was talking about working harder, and having achievements you could be proud of. That's not the same thing.

I think it's been established beyond doubt that a successful career doesn't make you happy. Plenty of researchers have looked into the correlation of income to happiness, and above the poverty line it's pretty flat.

Re: Regrets of the Dying

#86

Post by nandemo »

wslh wrote: post #60
F_J_H wrote: post #49

I have already posted this once in a similar thread, but thought I would post it again as it quite relevant to the article and others who have not seen it before may appreciate it: "Instantes" by Jorge Luis Borges: If I were able to live my life anew, In the next I would try to commit more errors. I would not try to be so perfect, I would relax more. I would be more foolish than I've been, In fact, I would take few t…

Sounds nice, but it's important to note that it's apocryphe, it was not written by JLB. A note from Martin Hadis: http://www.internetaleph.com/detail/showdetail.asp?objtype=4...

Indeed, anyone who was read any Borges should know that Instantes wasn't written by him. ;-)

Re: Regrets of the Dying

#87

Post by crpatino »

barrkel wrote: post #30
jolan wrote: post #22

No one on their death bed ever said "I wish I'd spent more time alone with my computer." - D. Bunten (creator of M.U.L.E.)

I find the implied converse of this quote (and its more usual version, applying to work) less than convincing. I've had more than my fill with my parents, thanks; I don't wish they had spent less time working and more time with me. I think there's a selfishness in that, a narcissistic desire to own more of the lives of your children, who, ultimately, are going to break free of you, and live their own lives.

I am sorry for being harsh... but I think is the present neglected version of yourself that does not want to hang around with your parents.

And yes, it would be foolish from them to expect, having not devoted enough time to your infant/child version, to try to compensate by devoting unwanted attention to your adult self.

However, it has been proven once and again. Children were not meant to be put in daycare. They were meant to be grown within an extended family environment (complete with elder siblings/cousins to look up to and younger siblings/cousins to look after).

That's why we are so SNAFU these days.

Re: Regrets of the Dying

#89

Post by SiVal »

neilk wrote: post #85
SiVal wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well said, neilk. I always have mixed feelings when reading about the wisdom of people who are dying. I don't doubt that they feel the way they say they feel at that point, but are their judgments relevant to how they WOULD HAVE felt for years, not weeks, back when they still had years to live? On their deathbeds, when they value family so much more than career, they wish they'd spent more time on the former, less on…

Well, I wasn't talking about a career. I was talking about working harder, and having achievements you could be proud of. That's not the same thing. I think it's been established beyond doubt that a successful career doesn't make you happy. Plenty of researchers have looked into the correlation of income to happiness, and above the poverty line it's pretty flat.

Yes, and I wasn't talking about one's income, but success at one's "work". The "achievements you can be proud of" will mostly be in the area of what you "do" since most achievements you can be proud of take a great deal of time and, as you say, "working harder", or they wouldn't be a source of much pride. What you spend a great deal of time working hard at is, for the most part, your "work", what you "do" at that stage in your life.

>"I think it's been established beyond doubt that a successful career doesn't make you happy...[very limited] correlation of income to happiness...."

Dan Gilbert's work, applies to "achievements you can be proud of" in general, not just one's income, so if you think it's relevant, then you can stop worrying about working harder. It won't permanently raise your "baseline happiness". But Gilbert's work, and the work he cites, is only "established beyond doubt" in the popular press, not in cog sci, where there is still a lot of wiggle room left and a lot of debate going on.

I like Gilbert's work overall, though, and it is one of the reasons I am expressing skepticism about the validity of the deathbed wish for "less time at the office". It might depend on how narrowly one thinks of "career" or "at the office" or "working" (I mean it more broadly), but if Gilbert has shown anything, it is that we seldom know how a given change really would make (or have made) us feel after a while--we just think we know.

Re: Regrets of the Dying

#90

Post by infinite8s »

neilk wrote: post #85
SiVal wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well said, neilk. I always have mixed feelings when reading about the wisdom of people who are dying. I don't doubt that they feel the way they say they feel at that point, but are their judgments relevant to how they WOULD HAVE felt for years, not weeks, back when they still had years to live? On their deathbeds, when they value family so much more than career, they wish they'd spent more time on the former, less on…

Well, I wasn't talking about a career. I was talking about working harder, and having achievements you could be proud of. That's not the same thing. I think it's been established beyond doubt that a successful career doesn't make you happy. Plenty of researchers have looked into the correlation of income to happiness, and above the poverty line it's pretty flat.

Having a successful career doesn't necessarily have to correlate with monotonically increasing income (although that's how most people perceive the phrase).
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