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Improving the way kids are taught to read

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Re: Improving the way kids are taught to read

#81

Post by woodandsteel »

zellyn wrote: post #32
mixedmath wrote: post #19

I'm disappointed that nowhere in this interview is there any actual indication of what is done badly, or what teachers should do to improve how kids are taught to read. I get that there is apparently a gap between how kids are taught to read and the science behind how kids should be taught read. I would much prefer a single understandable, actionable insight. Without it, this interview seems rather hollow. From this…

The interview is clearly about a book; I assume they focused on the story around the writing of the book, rather than recapitulating the contents of the book. If you want to know what is done badly, and how to improve, I imagine the best thing would be to read the book.

I have read many hundreds of interviews with non-fiction book authors, and they almost always include some of the specific ideas of the book. Indeed, usually that is most of what the interview is about.

Re: Improving the way kids are taught to read

#82

Post by ThomPete »

golanggeek wrote: post #10
ThomPete wrote: post #4

"The reasons are numerous, but one that Seidenberg cites over and over again is this: The way kids are taught to read in school is disconnected from the latest research, namely how language and speech actually develop in a child's brain." This is almost certainly wrong and even logically absurd. I am sure there are more optimal ways to learn to read but any kind with a fair IQ who aren't dyslexic can learn to read. M…

Could you let me know the kids app that you are speaking about.

Kindle Freetime

Re: Improving the way kids are taught to read

#83

Post by tropo »

Kluny wrote: post #68
dubya wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is actually done is that teachers have children do tons of worksheets focusing on small aspects of reading. This allows teachers to check the boxes showing that they've covered the relevant standards, because this is what's supposedly covered on standardized tests. The standards are difficult to turn into lesson plans (even if that was a good idea), so often they use the clip-art encrusted crap available on the…

Oh wow, that sounds suicidally boring. Way to kill the joy, eh.

It's mandatory to be boring. Anything else is offensive.

Little kids want to read about flinging poo, farting, projectile vomit, violence, and every possible misbehavior.

Supposed "children's books" are actually marketed toward grandmothers and public school librarians.

Re: Improving the way kids are taught to read

#84

Post by jmulho »

asimeqi wrote: post #13

I think this is the thread where I should recommend the best book to teach reading: Let's Read, a Linguistic Approach http://www.amazon.com/Lets-Read-A-Linguistic-Approach/dp/081... I got the recommendation here in HN and I used the book with my 2 daughters. I started with my first daughter when she was 4.5 years old. I started with my second daughter at an older age because she was showing a slight case of dyslexia.…

When our first son was three years old we would stick his high chair in front of the TV at lunch time, give him food, and turn on a Leap Frog phonics DVD. We had three: 1) Letter Factory, 2) Talking Words Factory, and 3) Talking Words Factory II. Our son absolutely loved these and wanted to watch them over and over again every day. Within about four months he started spontaneously reading things like the sign in a business window that says "open". Within a year or so he could read whole children's books. I couldn't believe it. With our next son, we waited patiently until he was three and tried it again: same result. The only other thing we did (which took much more effort) was read them bedtime stories every night before bed. With that, we had two boys reading before they started school. I can't recommend these DVDs enough.

Re: Improving the way kids are taught to read

#85

Post by tropo »

mkempe wrote: post #63
rogerthis wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one method that become very popular in Brazil since the 80s is the "whole word" method. The child is supposed to memorize the form of the word instead of decoding it. No need to say that's not efficient (as the latin letters allow the sound/sign conversions), it overloads memory, and in the end, the child takes longer to learn. The standardized tests in Brazil show that. Now, for why phonics and syllabic method h…

The "Look Say" method you describe (vs the classic "Phonics" method) was also widely deployed in the USA, to the detriment of many children's reading and writing skills.

I object to both.

The whole-word method is required for Chinese languages. Phonics is obviously proper for Spanish and Russian.

English is not so extreme. Phonics is useful, but it falls short. I've seen the disaster that is pure phonics with English, leading to a kid who mostly couldn't read at age 14. On the other hand, it will be hard to develop a decent vocabulary with the whole-word method. A hybrid approach works nicely.

See phonics fail on The Chaos: https://www.learnenglish.de/pronunciation/pronunciationpoem....

Re: Improving the way kids are taught to read

#86

Post by Kluny »

tropo wrote: post #83
Kluny wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh wow, that sounds suicidally boring. Way to kill the joy, eh.

It's mandatory to be boring. Anything else is offensive. Little kids want to read about flinging poo, farting, projectile vomit, violence, and every possible misbehavior. Supposed "children's books" are actually marketed toward grandmothers and public school librarians.

What about that Captain Underpants crap? I hated it when I was a kid but it seemed pretty good to the other kids and kind of acceptable to the adults.

Re: Improving the way kids are taught to read

#87

Post by jbattle »

jmulho wrote: post #84
asimeqi wrote: post #13

I think this is the thread where I should recommend the best book to teach reading: Let's Read, a Linguistic Approach http://www.amazon.com/Lets-Read-A-Linguistic-Approach/dp/081... I got the recommendation here in HN and I used the book with my 2 daughters. I started with my first daughter when she was 4.5 years old. I started with my second daughter at an older age because she was showing a slight case of dyslexia.…

When our first son was three years old we would stick his high chair in front of the TV at lunch time, give him food, and turn on a Leap Frog phonics DVD. We had three: 1) Letter Factory, 2) Talking Words Factory, and 3) Talking Words Factory II. Our son absolutely loved these and wanted to watch them over and over again every day. Within about four months he started spontaneously reading things like the sign in a bu…

Honestly I bet it doesn't matter what products or setup you use - sounds like you as parents made words and reading a ever-present part of the environment. I'm 98% sure that general atmosphere is important and has big results, regardless of the fine specifics of technique & etc. But that's just my intuition

Re: Improving the way kids are taught to read

#88

Post by tropo »

Kluny wrote: post #86
tropo wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mandatory to be boring. Anything else is offensive. Little kids want to read about flinging poo, farting, projectile vomit, violence, and every possible misbehavior. Supposed "children's books" are actually marketed toward grandmothers and public school librarians.

What about that Captain Underpants crap? I hated it when I was a kid but it seemed pretty good to the other kids and kind of acceptable to the adults.

That often gets banned for crudeness, but otherwise yes. It has the right idea.

I object to it for a completely different reason: bad spelling and grammar. I think a kid's book should set a perfect example.

Re: Improving the way kids are taught to read

#89

Post by ktsmith »

dragonwriter wrote: post #72
dubya wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is actually done is that teachers have children do tons of worksheets focusing on small aspects of reading. This allows teachers to check the boxes showing that they've covered the relevant standards, because this is what's supposedly covered on standardized tests. The standards are difficult to turn into lesson plans (even if that was a good idea), so often they use the clip-art encrusted crap available on the…

> The standards are difficult to turn into lesson plans That people can say that with a straight face indicated to me that we have a real problem in teacher education [0]. The standards you link may be different than what is addressed in lesson plans that have been handed down with only incremental modification for decades, but nothing about them seems to difficult to develop a year-long lesson plan that incorporates…

It's not that hard to develop lessons that meet the standards. It is time consuming and typically not paid for, teachers are expected to do it on their own time.

My state adopted new social studies standards last year and will require that they be taught in all grade levels as of next year. They allowed time for phasing them in due in part to the knowledge that there is no money behind redoing the lessons that teachers will need to develop and also no money for curriculum purchases to support it. Last weekend my wife went to a training on the new standard which we paid for out of our own pocket as one example.

Re: Improving the way kids are taught to read

#90

Post by ktsmith »

Kluny wrote: post #86
tropo wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mandatory to be boring. Anything else is offensive. Little kids want to read about flinging poo, farting, projectile vomit, violence, and every possible misbehavior. Supposed "children's books" are actually marketed toward grandmothers and public school librarians.

What about that Captain Underpants crap? I hated it when I was a kid but it seemed pretty good to the other kids and kind of acceptable to the adults.

Not sure where the other poster lives but the entire Captain Underpants series is in our son's school library. That's where he read the first one and we purchased the rest for him as he's a voracious reader. They aren't the best books but there's a big benefit in the kids having something that they are interested in reading and will read without being pushed.
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