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9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

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Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#81

Post by EpicEng »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #73
EpicEng wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But morning really is the default; it's our biological default. Most people wake up in the morning and go to bed at night naturally. Many people have small children, good luck remaining a night person with a 1 year old in the house. There are real reasons here, it's not just some arbitrary decision.

Biologically, don't most people wake up at dawn? That doesn't get you to the office at 7:30 AM in the winter. That is, our schedule is not a biologically-based schedule. "Morning" (as defined by our society) is not the biological default.

Sure, but you're quibbling over an hour here or there. When people use the term "night person" they don't mean someone who wakes up at e.g. 8 instead of 7, we're talking about pushing back work by many hours, which just isn't possible for most people without a much shorter work day (I'm ok with that!)

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#82

Post by el_benhameen »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #74
JeanMarcS wrote: post #20

I work the over way (west side of the Atlantic, most clients in Europe). So I get up, work until lunchtime, and then my 5 hours working day is other if I want. Of course it’s not everyday I don’t work in the afternoon, but it’s nice that you can spend the afternoon with the kids if you want. Ok, sometimes duty calls in the middle of my night (last Tuesday I was woke up at 3am for an emergency on a client server) but…

I once got woken up by a phone call from Europe at 4 AM. The first thing I had to do was remember an 8-digit hex number. It took a bit...

I would've thought it would take 32 bits.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#83

Post by surement »

krylon wrote: post #68
core-questions wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to be really against DST, but honestly, it's the only thing that actually lets me see the damn sun at all in the winter, so now I'm a fan.

But DST is in summer , isn't it? At least that is what I have been told: In summer, days are so long and start so early that we might as well move the whole day back by an hour, so get up early, finish work early and still have a couple of hours of daylight left. Full disclosure: I am not a fan of DST, but I do not expect the current situation to change. In Europe, almost(?) all countries use it, so if just Germany (…

> if DST was to go, all countries would have to drop it simultaneously, or else the resulting patchwork would be too much of a pain

There are already countless exceptions to DST and people seem to be doing fine. E.g. in Australia there are two regions in the same time zone where only one has DST, meaning they are out of sync for half the year.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#84

Post by el_benhameen »

I'm most productive in the early morning and late evening. The mid-afternoon is my least productive time, perhaps because of lunch or because I live in a sunny area and I'd like to take advantage of the sunshine in the afternoon. I don't mind working 8 hours in a day, but I'd rather do something like the inverse of this person's schedule and work 7 to 11, both AM and PM.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#85

Post by meesterdude »

adjagu wrote: post #55

This all sounds good unless you work a "shift" style schedule. Every single person I know works what is considered first shift (approximately 6/7/8/9am to 2/3/4/5pm). Some of them have tried second and third shifts, but they always go back to first shift because "second/third shift don't work for me" they say. Now for me I work better at night/early morning. Because of this I have worked third shift (midnight to 8am)…

neat! I'm often a nightowl myself, and often reflect on how life would be different if we spread out the working hours for people more - so most places would be 24-hour, and roads wouldn't be so packed.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#86

Post by davehtaylor »

jrs235 wrote: post #45
davehtaylor wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's because people think "morning person" is the default, and correct, way of being. And that not being a morning person makes you odd or lazy. So when someone comes in challenging late-friendly scheduling, they're assumed to be the correct one, and that the workplace has somehow been in error by allowing later schedules.

Perhaps "morning person" is the default because many people have families and children and whether or not they operate best in the morning or evening, they are forced to operate in the morning because that's when school time is scheduled (the children are at school) and the children are home in the evening (default family time). I'm wishing that someday we can get to more flexible schooling hours. I think if we want…

Schooling is definitely a major issue. My nephew has to be at school by 7:15 am. It’s absolutley asinine to believe that pre-teens and teens can be functional or able to actually learn anything at such an hour. Not to mention the fact that every school is different. His younger brother, for example doesn’t start school until nearl 9:00. And this is an elementary and a high school in the same district. It’s insane. So their mom has to figure out how to get them to school a vastly different times, then figure out how to make it to work at a reasonable time given her schedule.

I definitely agree that this is a major issue that we need to address.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#87

Post by wishinghand »

crispyambulance wrote: post #51
Apocryphon wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also an argument that's been made that kids go to school too early in the day and school start time should be postponed to later in the morning, because they need more hours of sleep.

They need a solid 6-8 hours of sleep, like other humans. I suspect the problem is that teens just stay awake FAR LONGER than is advisable perhaps to maximize their free unstructured time at night and to minimize the crushing grind of the mornings? I expect that if the school start time was shifted to 9am, the kids would just stay up until 5AM instead of only 3AM.

For some reason the sleep pattern changes for adolescents. Now that I'm in my 30s, waking up early is no big deal, but waking up before 8 was a huge struggle and I was always an advocate of 8 hours of sleep for myself.

Here's a summary of the issue: https://sleepfoundation.org/sleep-news/school-start-time-and...

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#88

Post by s73ver_ »

dictum wrote: post #33
nitrogen wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...if they want to come in a 8:00pm and work until 2:00am, why not? Part of the "why not" is a deeply ingrained belief in at least American culture that morning people are just "better" than night people. It's so ingrained that we mostly forget to talk about it and it's just assumed. "Early bird catches the worm" and all that. I once saw a workplace where there were night-person-friendly policies and schedules. Then…

> Then one insanely morning person joins and wants to leave at 3:30 every day. Suddenly all of his scheduling preferences were presumed valid Why wouldn't their preferences be presumed valid? It's as hard for the morning person to deal with night-person preferences as it's hard for a night person to deal with morning-person preferences. (Disclaimer: I'm a morning person and I'm not American.)

I think they meant more valid than the others. But if most people on the team are night person schedules, it should be on the morning person to adapt more.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#89

Post by kgilpin »

Apocryphon wrote: post #39
inanutshellus wrote: post #25

Sounds like #NoKids rather than #SpainBrain. I'm sure it sounds like I'm being pithy, but you fall into line when your kids get home at 4 and you want to spend time with them before they go to bed at 8. Maybe his point stands in some sense, but once you add kids into the mix it quickly becomes "9-5" again or "burning the candle at both ends."

There's also an argument that's been made that kids go to school too early in the day and school start time should be postponed to later in the morning, because they need more hours of sleep.

In Weston Massachusetts there is a proposal to move the start of high school and middle school back to 8:45 for this reason.

https://www.westonschools.org/blog/2017/10/23/proposed-chang...

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#90

Post by s73ver_ »

EpicEng wrote: post #65
nitrogen wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...if they want to come in a 8:00pm and work until 2:00am, why not? Part of the "why not" is a deeply ingrained belief in at least American culture that morning people are just "better" than night people. It's so ingrained that we mostly forget to talk about it and it's just assumed. "Early bird catches the worm" and all that. I once saw a workplace where there were night-person-friendly policies and schedules. Then…

part of it, yes, but unless you work in a complete vacuum people will need your input throughout the day. They may need support, or your attendance at a meeting, or maybe the just need to ask a simple question. I couldn't support one of my devs asking for hours completely opposite everyone else as it would slow the entire team down.

For 99.9999999999999% of things, waiting for a response is not going to kill anyone. The sun will still come up tomorrow, the business will still be around, and things will continue as normal.
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