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New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

papersplease.org

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Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#81

Post by dagw »

klez wrote: post #63
chrisper wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it the same with Canada, though? I admit, I only watched those Border Patrol Shows on Netflix and what not, but it always disturbed me how much they always wanted to check the whole phone.

I don't know if it depends on where you come from, but I went to Canada a couple years ago, by plane. No hassle at all, they just asked me if I had Malaria or knew anyone with Malaria, asked me what I was there for (Mozilla workweek, but not for work!), and they sent me on my merry way. Not even a baggage inspection, let alone a computer/cellphone inspection.

I think a lot also depends on which border guard you get and what their 'feel' for you is. I was in the US a few month ago and got waved through after 30 seconds and a couple of basic questions (might have helped that I was travelling with my wife and daughter). When I was in Canada a few years ago I got called into a separate room and asked a bunch of questions about what I do for a living, what my parents do for a living, how long I was planning to stay, how much money I had with me etc. etc.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#82

Post by saguro »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #41
saguro wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're suggesting that your n=1 anecdote weighs more than those thousands of reddit stories? Or that my position is invalid because instead of engaging in another n=1 anecdote I aggregated the outcome of many? For your one story, you can click the top few links of that search to see detailed accounts and full documented histories from representatives who are clearly systemically stonewalling this kind of activism. An…

> thousands of reddit stories Many of “thousand of Reddit stories” are just like your comment. Repeating a meme, nothing more. Will your representatives always be responsive? No. Some are worse than others. On some issues, the political tea leaves are too obvious to merit discussion. By and large, however, representatives and their staff care about their constituents. When you call (better than form responses on webs…

> Many of “thousand of Reddit stories” are just like your comment. Repeating a meme, nothing more.

Demonstrably, provably, completely, wrong.

https://www.reddit.com/r/netneutrality/comments/7kzblu/i_con... - 4 page account of comms

https://www.reddit.com/r/Firearms/comments/75yjkd/the_offici... - photos showing redditor attended in person instead of making a phone call. Was told their concerns would be 'passed along'

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/6dm169/i_also... - full account of comms. Again cookie cutter response.

Maybe this is biased because it's the top results. Let's jump to page 4.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SaltLakeCity/comments/7dtlyr/i_just... - rep's voice mail is full and has been for months. No response

https://www.reddit.com/r/Connecticut/comments/7gwins/this_is... - representative actually stands up for the interests of constituents. Yay, we got one!

No memes here, just detailed accounts which overwhelmingly demonstrate that paid-for representatives have a strategy to deal with this. As for civic duties, you do not have a civic duty to uphold a process which is a textbook example of regulatory capture. If you get success by doing it, great. But statistically, for the majority of Americans, talking to their rep is worse than doing nothing. It's spending their time and effort on a process which is designed to ignore them, so they don't spend that same effort searching for an alternative process which might actually work.

This process used to be effective; before it was circumvented by lobbying activity. You can't cling to it today just because it worked yesterday. You also can't get jobs by just turning up to places and handing out your CV. Times change.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#83

Post by batmenace »

alkonaut wrote: post #69

Unfortunately the recommended behavior is to be "difficult". Trying to somehow state your own rights, demand that officers perform searches in accordance with law etc. - which is "being difficult". If you are on your way to a great holiday, important meeting etc, you aren't going to risk it. Because anyone "being difficult" will be detained or rejected. So I'll just fold and give them my password. And they know this.…

Theres another case, though. Some people have no choice but to be "difficult". Consider, for example, a lawyer from an international firm travelling with company devices, which have on them privileged information that can under no circumstances be disclosed. These kinds of people have no choice but to be "difficult".

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#85

Post by yorby »

nicolas_t wrote: post #25
jimnotgym wrote: post #18

I don't know if it worries my American chums, but I won't visit the USA. As a foreign tourist bringing money into your economy I feel there is a very real risk to my privacy and increasingly my person. I am beginning to favour goods and services from EU where human rights still mean something. Perhaps it doesn't matter to you how the US is perceived overseas, perhaps you don't want my money. Perhaps you don't mind be…

I sometimes have to go to the US for business purposes but from now on will only do so with a wiped computer with just enough installed to look like a normal user's data.

If they plug it in their system, wouldn't you be afraid to bring back some kind of malware? I'd try to bring no electronics when crossing the border...

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#87

Post by chrisper »

klez wrote: post #63
chrisper wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it the same with Canada, though? I admit, I only watched those Border Patrol Shows on Netflix and what not, but it always disturbed me how much they always wanted to check the whole phone.

I don't know if it depends on where you come from, but I went to Canada a couple years ago, by plane. No hassle at all, they just asked me if I had Malaria or knew anyone with Malaria, asked me what I was there for (Mozilla workweek, but not for work!), and they sent me on my merry way. Not even a baggage inspection, let alone a computer/cellphone inspection.

This was the Canada / US border.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#88

Post by collyw »

Teichopsia wrote: post #45

Is this only for people entering the country or does it also apply to those in transit?

The US is the only country that I have passed though where they feel the need to poke around with your baggage that is in transit. (Its on my list of "shithole" countries).

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#89

Post by letsgetphysITal »

batmenace wrote: post #83
alkonaut wrote: post #69

Unfortunately the recommended behavior is to be "difficult". Trying to somehow state your own rights, demand that officers perform searches in accordance with law etc. - which is "being difficult". If you are on your way to a great holiday, important meeting etc, you aren't going to risk it. Because anyone "being difficult" will be detained or rejected. So I'll just fold and give them my password. And they know this.…

Theres another case, though. Some people have no choice but to be "difficult". Consider, for example, a lawyer from an international firm travelling with company devices, which have on them privileged information that can under no circumstances be disclosed. These kinds of people have no choice but to be "difficult".

Those people don't carry that data with them, if they're competent or have competent IT staff. They have already configured VPNs with 2FA, burner laptops and mobile devices, or simply mail the devices via registered post to the hotel and have them picked up there. Device moving through the mail system don't get seen by the border grunts.

Re: New DHS policy on demands for passwords to travelers’ electronic devices

#90

Post by letsgetphysITal »

dbbk wrote: post #70
tunareter wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe your employer has offices there. Maybe you have relatives there. Maybe you have clients there. Or conferences, or other professional events. Maybe you are even resident there.

Maybe you just want to go to Disneyland.

Whether Disney World is worth paying for with your dignity and privacy is a decision each person must make. Further, Disney now harvest biometrics for their ticketing. Noooooooope.
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