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Why I Still Use Vim

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Re: Why I Still Use Vim

#81

Post by owaislone »

stuaxo wrote: post #58
owaislone wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Electron devs really need to step and try to address the performance problems but even if they do, I don't think it'll help much since they have to allow full web platform to run. Electron has brought so many apps to Linux that devs otherwise wouldn't even consider so I'm happy about that. On the other hand these apps have major performance problems. Especially the ones that I've to leave running in the backg…

It seems unlikely - electron developers are going to understand how to use browsers, but fixing the browser itself is the way to make it use less RAM. Maybe if they switch to Servo it might use a little less RAM, but inherently it's always going to be pretty heavy.

I don't think servo will help much in the long run. It's just that web is too complex a platform with tons of APIs, technologies and edge cases to support. Any full fledged web engine will always be heavy. I think Electron (or something that wants to displace it) should give up on support web platform on Desktop, pick a limited subset of it and run with it. Yes, we won't have the ability to bundle web apps as desktop apps anymore but that's exactly what will fix the mess. We don't need a way to turn a website/webapp into a desktop app. We need a way to make it very easy to port a webapp to a desktop app will little effort. The key is to make the knowledge transferable, not the actual code as is.

Re: Why I Still Use Vim

#82

Post by frou_dh »

roryisok wrote: post #70

I wonder why more devs who are transitioning from javascript don't simply build a shell native app with a webview in it? UWP or .NET with a webview uses a lot less RAM than electron to do the same thing. I haven't run tests on MacOS but I bet Cocoa and Swift could do the same thing

I assume a lot of the developers rely on (or at least have an affinity for) the niceties of Chromium/Blink. So using whatever webview is provided natively by the OS wouldn't be a straight swap.

Re: Why I Still Use Vim

#84

Post by tjpnz »

stuaxo wrote: post #58
owaislone wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Electron devs really need to step and try to address the performance problems but even if they do, I don't think it'll help much since they have to allow full web platform to run. Electron has brought so many apps to Linux that devs otherwise wouldn't even consider so I'm happy about that. On the other hand these apps have major performance problems. Especially the ones that I've to leave running in the backg…

It seems unlikely - electron developers are going to understand how to use browsers, but fixing the browser itself is the way to make it use less RAM. Maybe if they switch to Servo it might use a little less RAM, but inherently it's always going to be pretty heavy.

> electron developers are going to understand how to use browsers, but fixing the browser itself is the way to make it use less RAM.

This to me is the crux of the issue. Github has a lot of great engineers but they're less likely to be versed in C/C++/whatever else is required to make this kind of thing truly succeed.

It really begs the question of what Microsoft were thinking the day they decided to build Code on it.

Re: Why I Still Use Vim

#85

Post by roryisok »

frou_dh wrote: post #82
roryisok wrote: post #70

I wonder why more devs who are transitioning from javascript don't simply build a shell native app with a webview in it? UWP or .NET with a webview uses a lot less RAM than electron to do the same thing. I haven't run tests on MacOS but I bet Cocoa and Swift could do the same thing

I assume a lot of the developers rely on (or at least have an affinity for) the niceties of Chromium/Blink. So using whatever webview is provided natively by the OS wouldn't be a straight swap.

maybe not, but electron requires some refactoring and learning a few new things by itself, it's also not a straight swap from a web app.

Re: Why I Still Use Vim

#86

Post by kevingadd »

raverbashing wrote: post #33
apatters wrote: post #22

People can mount whatever defense they like of Electron, but the bottom line is, I think twice before I adopt any new Electron app. My daily drivers are a desktop replacement with 8gb of ram and an ultra-portable machine with 4gb. On 4gb it only takes a couple of Electron apps to eat half of my ram or more. Factor in the OS and a browser or two and it's already swapping. These are often just chat apps or something, t…

I wonder if we'll see a Mozilla engine based Electron (or simply not the latest Chromium engine, which gets bigger and slower with every passing day)

xulrunner was effectively that a long time ago, and many apps shipped using it, but it got shot in the head. There are a couple apps still out there using forks of it, I think.

Re: Why I Still Use Vim

#88

Post by embersdev »

GordonS wrote: post #57
pluma wrote: post #14

This article implies the differences matter. Nope, sorry, the conveniences of VSCode are worth the "cost" for me. I have 32 gigs of RAM and the time I spend opening files doesn't register compared to the time I spend writing or reading code. I do wonder whether the measurements take the base overhead of each editor into account. Do the numbers represent the use per file or the total for the file plus the entire app?

For me, VS Code doesn't hog memory anywhere near like Atom does in the linked article. Electron apps are often slow, memory hogs, but VS Code is neither of those things - it's an example of a great Electron app that absolutely flies, despite being stuffed with features.

I agree. Its memory usages is a fraction of atom or slack. not sure what MS did to make that happen, but what ever they did.... its working.

Re: Why I Still Use Vim

#89

Post by krutzger »

svantana wrote: post #71
davesque wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also use properly designed IDE's written in native code. I use Vim too by the way.

Xcode is about as native as you can get (developed by the same company as the OS!), yet it becomes more sluggish with each new version. I think the real problem is product managers focusing too heavily on "shiny new features" and less on efficiency/stability, which is mystifying since these are all dev tools, after all.

Visual studio (the real one, not code) isn't that performant either...

Re: Why I Still Use Vim

#90

Post by frou_dh »

roryisok wrote: post #85
frou_dh wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume a lot of the developers rely on (or at least have an affinity for) the niceties of Chromium/Blink. So using whatever webview is provided natively by the OS wouldn't be a straight swap.

maybe not, but electron requires some refactoring and learning a few new things by itself, it's also not a straight swap from a web app.

Win7, for better or worse, is still a relevant OS. What engine does its native webview use? Some old IE thing that is garbage in comparison to Chromium?
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