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How Taiwan transformed its health care system

nytimes.com

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Re: How Taiwan transformed its health care system

#81

Post by dustinmoorenet »

brobinson wrote: post #74
dustinmoorenet wrote: post #13

While visiting my in-laws in Taiwan (Taichung City), My son slipped on the floor and busted his head just above the eye. We took him to the ER. He got 7 stitches and occupied an ER bed for 4 hours while the drugs they used to put him under wore off. We paid after we were released. It came out to about $200 US total, without insurance. We got back to Austin a week later and had the stitches removed, which cost us $60,…

It's good and affordable until 2020 which is when the current (second) iteration is projected to go bankrupt. We shall see what happens after that. https://house.ettoday.net/news/803652?t=%E4%BA%8C%E4%BB%A3%E... I did enjoy getting an x-ray (ankle injury) + evaluation + a week of painkillers for $27 USD without insurance, though. I can only imagine what it would have cost in the US.

When a ship is off course, you correct. I don't see either party letting healthcare slip under their respective watch. Taiwan's two party system does not have a (major) party built on small government like the US does. Both parties want to keep their people honestly happy.

Re: How Taiwan transformed its health care system

#83

Post by whatyoucantsay »

yorwba wrote: post #54
whatyoucantsay wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, there! Your comment is charactaristically un -Taiwanese, starting with the word "boba". That isn't the word people use for it in Taiwan (either in meaning of the characters or the sound). Most people don't understand boba (波霸) and I personally never encountered the word until visiting North America. In Taiwan, it's 珍珠奶茶. > "people who eat rice or noodles at almost every meal" is not only a problematic and reducti…

I don't consider it surprising that a Taiwanese would use characteristically un-Taiwanese expressions on an English-language forum. I'm not sure what to think of your approach of suggesting that they are lying, but then self-congratulating your charity for not outright saying that. While rice and noodles may be staples of Taiwanese food, that doesn't mean that everyone is eating healthy. In the West, you might say th…

I haven't suggested that anyone is "lying", as you put it, but it was clear to me that the parent's comment was disingenuous and an appeal to identity, or worse to racial authority.

FWIW "chow mein" is a HK phrase / dish.

> I don't know how often Taiwanese drink sugary drinks or eat sweets in addition to their meals

I do.

Unlike everyone else in this thread AFICT, Taiwan is my homeland and where I've chosen to build my future life. Your doubts and kevinjcliao's (possibly innocent) misinformation mean nothing to me.

Re: How Taiwan transformed its health care system

#84

Post by chiefalchemist »

> "Taiwan has done a great job at treating many communicable diseases, but more chronic conditions are on the rise. These include cancer and cardiovascular and cerebrovascular disease, all of which are expensive to treat."

It's foolish to keep talking about healthcare without talking about (personal) health (including diet and lifestyle).

Reforming the healthcare system of a relatively young and healthy society is relatively easy (read: doable). On the other hand, "fixing" a healthcare system of a country (e.g., USA) that's aging and more importantly fond of "acquiring" preventable conditions (e.g., obesity, type 2 diabetes, etc.) and you will always be going sideways.

Yes, there is room for improvement in the USA. But that's still not going to fix the disgusting amount of resources wasted on the preventables.

If healthcare is going to be a right then personal health is the responsibility that must be paired with this right. Thus far the USA isn't interested in the discussion of the latter.

Re: How Taiwan transformed its health care system

#85

Post by christophilus »

pixelbill wrote: post #21
peterburkimsher wrote: post #12

Culture helps - everyone here wants to be a doctor, lawyer, or engineer. Taiwanese doctors don't get paid in money. They get paid "credits" which have to be exchanged for money based on a parallel financial system. Foreigners here sometimes complain that there's a focus on seeing more patients faster, so there might be a misdiagnosis or a less thorough examination. The fact remains though - it's cheaper to fly here t…

I'm planning on visiting to get some dental work done in the coming months. I have a lot of issues and have never been able to afford proper work here in the US. To get the work done I need here would be in excess of $50,000 but my friend in Taiwan said it would cost at most $1,000 there. Every time in the past I suggested something like that to my current dentist they had the same reaction, basically: "Oh I would ne…

As a U.S. based software engineer, I can say that medicine is not the only sector that has over-priced professionals. I get paid a ridiculously high salary compared with my European counterparts. I've honestly always wanted to move to Europe, but the salaries here keep me from doing so. I don't understand how the U.S. gets away with it, to be honest.

With a global economy, I don't understand how we manage to stay competitive. Same goes for Silicon Valley vs the rest of the U.S. I don't understand how there can be such a price differential, and yet the most pricey places seem to win economically.

Re: How Taiwan transformed its health care system

#86

Post by chillingeffect »

whatyoucantsay wrote: post #15

Taiwan does indeed have world class health care despite having an exceedingly low tax rate by western standards. But lets not overlook the elephant in the room. Taiwan is an island full of thin people who eat rice or noodles at almost every meal. Millions of people still shop primarily at traditional markets and millions of others follow Buddhist diets that would be mocked by western "diet hackers". Only in the past…

Don't know why you're getting downvoted, but to support your point, they consume waaaay less caffeine and alcohol than the u.s. most are allergic to alcohol. Missing sleep isn't a competitive sport. Their bodies are much more homogenous and obesity I estimate less than 3%.

Also in corporate cafes, foods are still very traditional.

Notably their eyes are relatively poor. Almost 90% have corrected vision. Often in large meeting 100% will be wearing glasses.

Re: How Taiwan transformed its health care system

#87

Post by yks »

LammyL wrote: post #25
peterburkimsher wrote: post #12

Culture helps - everyone here wants to be a doctor, lawyer, or engineer. Taiwanese doctors don't get paid in money. They get paid "credits" which have to be exchanged for money based on a parallel financial system. Foreigners here sometimes complain that there's a focus on seeing more patients faster, so there might be a misdiagnosis or a less thorough examination. The fact remains though - it's cheaper to fly here t…

How much does it cost to get wisdom teeth removed in the US and in Taiwan? My dentist in Toronto charges around $400 CAD per tooth for extractions, and that’s with full general anesthesia. The price is the same here with private insurance and without.

In Bangkok I got two wisdom teeth removed in a single operation with a local anesthesia for $300 without insurance, in a good modern clinic where everyone speaks English.

Re: How Taiwan transformed its health care system

#88

Post by evanslify »

polskibus wrote: post #29

What are the opportunities for Taiwan healthcare workers to emigrate? Sometimes the surprising quality comes from lack of perspectives for the workers (for example strict visas requirements in contrast to EU free labour movement). Many very good doctors from Central and Eastern Europe emigrated and the quality of healthcare dropped.

This exists, but not much. As a matter of fact, many healthcare workers (especially registered nurses) work very, very long hours and get way less paid than they do in other countries. Also I would expect quality of surgeries would drop in future years due to lawsuit or lack of trust between doctor/nurse-families of patient causing doctors/nurses quitting.

Re: How Taiwan transformed its health care system

#89

Post by netsharc »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #63
netsharc wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they get paid with blockchain-based currency. (I kid..) Maybe he means doctors get paid with status, and if you're a doctor you get better rates for loans.

A blockchain-based currency would be cool, and not totally different to the current system. All I know is what a medical student at church told me - I'll have to confirm later. But I know that it's not payment as status - the doctors' salaries are set in a parallel currency, which has a changing exchange rate with real NTD. I'll find out and reply.

I think Germany has a similar system, at least for dentists. A simple check is 1 unit, root canals have more units, and the insurance sets the rate how many Euroes a unit costs...

Re: How Taiwan transformed its health care system

#90

Post by replicatorblog »

My daughter was diagnosed with Leukemia, spent 10 weeks in a top-notch hospital, got stellar around the clock attention from the best docs in the world for two years, and a limitless supply of chemotherapy and drugs to treat the side effects.

Grand total for 24 months of the best care in the world?

$8,000 in deductibles.

I don't doubt that other healthcare systems are well run, but after my family's ordeal, I came away pretty impressed with our system. Treating cancer for less than the price of a well-worn car is pretty darn impressive.

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