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How a PR Agency Stole Our Kickstarter Money

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Re: How a PR Agency Stole Our Kickstarter Money

#81

Post by panglott »

gamblor956 wrote: post #67
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much money was it? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rdacalos/upstart-the-bo... Looks like $35k. No one would risk destroying their reputation over that small sum. I wonder what the other side of the story is? Abuse is pretty common in gamedev, but this would be flagrant.

Looks like $35k. No one would risk destroying their reputation over that small sum. I wonder what the other side of the story is? People have killed for far less...If they were in a bad enough financial position, they could have thought that they would borrow their client's money to pay immediate bills, and pay the account back with future client earnings. It happens quite frequently in the legal world--it's the numb…

Possibly even a single partner was defrauding the business.

If the other partners were not aware this was occurring until now, that might be a more benevolent explanation of why the agency has gone dark.

Re: How a PR Agency Stole Our Kickstarter Money

#83

Post by justboxing »

cr0sh wrote: post #69

If I were a backer of the KS, I think I would be pretty po'd to know that my money didn't go to the people/organization I was backing. This is definitely something that needs to go to the courts; it has to be a form of financial fraud, and depending on the amount raised by the KS, it could end up being a fairly big deal. As it is, if I were a backer, I would feel like I had been defrauded in some manner. Even if I go…

Yes, it's wire fraud if intent can be proven. Relevant to this situation is 'electronic communication'...

> The elements of wire fraud under Section 1343 directly parallel those of the mail fraud statute, but require the use of an interstate telephone call or electronic communication made in furtherance of the scheme.

> essential elements of wire fraud are:

> (1) a scheme to defraud and

> (2) the use of, or causing the use of, interstate wire communications to execute the scheme)

Source: https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-941-18...

Re: How a PR Agency Stole Our Kickstarter Money

#84

Post by beckler »

LaundroMat wrote: post #48

I can imagine one scenario where Woodshed was in dire financial straits and calculated that the brand damage resulting from keeping the game developer's money was worth it.

Bingo. I'm sure they were banking on the project failing and they would come out clean.

Re: How a PR Agency Stole Our Kickstarter Money

#85

Post by sillysaurus3 »

nimos wrote: post #6

I don't know why but it kind of rubs me the wrong way PR agencies for Kickstarter/crowd-funding even exist. I'd rather back something that had someone passionate with a shitty cell phone video over the generic sterile PR videos that everything seems to have now. https://twitter.com/Woodshedagency The hashtags on their twitter description almost seem like satire.

@Woodshedagency just hid all their tweets. This isn't looking good.

Re: How a PR Agency Stole Our Kickstarter Money

#86

Post by slantyyz »

learc83 wrote: post #19
the-dude wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see what you are getting at, but my comment stands. Responsibility is not being taken.

It was a stupid risk, they said as much. Why are you insisting on self-flagellation? They are the victims here (assuming they are telling the truth). I don't blame people for being taken advantage of by a conman. I might advise them not to be so trusting, but I don't go around demanding they publicly take full responsibility for being the victim of a scam.

>> They are the victims here (assuming they are telling the truth).

Aren't the real victims here the Kickstarter backers?

Re: How a PR Agency Stole Our Kickstarter Money

#88

Post by DoreenMichele »

VectorLock wrote: post #54
stablemap wrote: post #8

https://twitter.com/Woodshedagency/status/943508162002513923

For a PR agency I'd consider this as officially "going to ground."

I did not know this expression. For others who might not know it:

https://britishisms.wordpress.com/2013/06/17/go-to-ground/

Re: How a PR Agency Stole Our Kickstarter Money

#89

Post by stablemap »

kjrose wrote: post #76
VectorLock wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a PR agency I'd consider this as officially "going to ground."

Yeah. They’ve gone completely to ground. I am guessing in the hopes it will blow over before it becomes bigger. They claimed in a tweet earlier today that they were preparing a response however the fact they locked off their channel seems to imply their response is duck and cover.

Thanks for summarizing it—I didn’t anticipate their locking the account.

Re: How a PR Agency Stole Our Kickstarter Money

#90

Post by ineedasername »

slantyyz wrote: post #79
ineedasername wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think blaming the victim is a useful criticism. Trusting a vendor to perform the tasks for which they've been hired is hardly a fault. Woodshed represented this as a service they had offered clients in the past, and the client had a contractual addendum. In the world or raising money, it is extremely common, even required at times, for a fundraising partner to control some or all aspects of the financial arra…

>> You protect yourself by having the appropriate contractual agreements in place, which the client did here. I disagree. You protect yourself by doing your necessary homework before you even sign the contracts. Contracts are helpful, but in the real world, getting a resolution can be very messy. Lawsuits are stressful, expensive and time consuming. If you've been through a lawsuit, you'll know that being right is of…

And in that hypothetical reality no one ever needs recourse to a legal system for contractual disputes. I've been through lawsuits, specifically for fraudulent representations made by a vendor. (We won, easily. Good record keeping and contracts saved the day) In that example and this one, it doesnt appear that additional research on the vendor would have revealed a show stopping issue ahead of time. Of course the victim could have avoided the issue with either perfect foreknowledge or private investigators rifling through a small business's financials. In the real world though, due diligence follows practicality, and uses best effort up front and contracts and lawyers just in case. Your interpretation belies the viewpoint of "someone was able to attack them therefore its their fault they got attacked"
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