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ESPN Can’t Afford Monday Night Football Any More

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Re: ESPN Can’t Afford Monday Night Football Any More

#81

Post by JuanaMango »

WillyOnWheels wrote: post #59
ZoeZoeBee wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here we have a glaring example of the issue. You use feelings instead of data to make your point, the problem is your anecdotal assertions are not backed up by reality. 90% of those killed by police were armed. So far this year 15 African Americans have been killed while unarmed to 21 White Americans and the numbers are similar for the previous years where data is available https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/nat…

It's about ratios. There are about 220 million White Americans. Your data claims 392 White Americans have been killed police in 2017 so far. There are about 35 million Black Americans. Your data claims 190 Black Americans have been killed by police in 2017 so far. If Black Americans were killed by police hypothetically at the same rate as White Americans, 62 Black Americans would be dead. Do you see the huge disparit…

Ratios eh?

If over 90% of people killed by cops were armed, and the majority of those killed, were killed during the commission of a crime one might come to the conclusion that armed commission of crimes is the leading cause of death by cop.

African Americans commit murder at a ratio 8 times that of white people. If anything black people are statistically under represented in police homicides.

_would love to hear_ what warranted the deletion of this post...

Re: ESPN Can’t Afford Monday Night Football Any More

#82

Post by kolbe »

WillyOnWheels wrote: post #59
ZoeZoeBee wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here we have a glaring example of the issue. You use feelings instead of data to make your point, the problem is your anecdotal assertions are not backed up by reality. 90% of those killed by police were armed. So far this year 15 African Americans have been killed while unarmed to 21 White Americans and the numbers are similar for the previous years where data is available https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/nat…

It's about ratios. There are about 220 million White Americans. Your data claims 392 White Americans have been killed police in 2017 so far. There are about 35 million Black Americans. Your data claims 190 Black Americans have been killed by police in 2017 so far. If Black Americans were killed by police hypothetically at the same rate as White Americans, 62 Black Americans would be dead. Do you see the huge disparit…

It seems pretty consistent with murder victim data. Even though Chicago is 32% black and 43% white, the vast vast majority of murder victims are black and occur in mostly black neighborhoods. I would think that police interactions with crime would follow this trend too.

https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/2017-chicago-murders

Re: ESPN Can’t Afford Monday Night Football Any More

#83

Post by cannonedhamster »

DamnYuppie wrote: post #63
WillyOnWheels wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about ratios. There are about 220 million White Americans. Your data claims 392 White Americans have been killed police in 2017 so far. There are about 35 million Black Americans. Your data claims 190 Black Americans have been killed by police in 2017 so far. If Black Americans were killed by police hypothetically at the same rate as White Americans, 62 Black Americans would be dead. Do you see the huge disparit…

What you analysis fails to factor in is the number of crimes committed by each. In that regard blacks commit far more crimes then whites.

Or Blacks get charged far more than whites, or that Blacks are policed more heavily, or that it has to do with poverty more than skin color, etc.

The issue is that the data can't be conclusive unless you have an issue where you took two groups of people, gave them the same economic starting point, gave them the same systemic disadvantage, same opportunities and then could make a determination as to whether or not it has anything to do with culture.

Or you could easily look into the fact that economically there is a long history of repressing people of color and that systemic collection of repressions them still exist leading to the exact outcome expected, but still blame those people for "not picking themselves up by their bootstraps". It's as though you haven't seen Trading Places.

Re: ESPN Can’t Afford Monday Night Football Any More

#84

Post by eru »

kodablah wrote: post #54
eru wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those salary caps are really weird. In 'socialist' Europe, we have no cap on football players pay, and the sky doesn't come down.

Neither does the US in sports like baseball. Nobody said salary caps are the problem, so it wouldn't be the cause of the sky falling. It's about the salary amount, not whether it's capped. Salary caps are about how your society values parity in whichever sport it is applied to. Regardless of the salary cap argument, do expect this to affect soccer as well, though further into the future. Right now many of those salar…

> Salary caps are about how your society values parity in whichever sport it is applied to.

It's a bit more complicated than that. In Europe you also usually have a relegation system. If I remember right, leagues are usually closed in the US?

Re: ESPN Can’t Afford Monday Night Football Any More

#85

Post by eru »

Zarath wrote: post #77
eru wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those salary caps are really weird. In 'socialist' Europe, we have no cap on football players pay, and the sky doesn't come down.

I think the salary caps are for competitive parity, not for economic reasons. Don't watch European Football, but are the same teams good every year?

Mostly similar teams, but surprising rises and declines do happen. The relegation system is a huge part of the fun for people watching, too. (So two good teams from second league make it into first every year in eg the German football system.)

Hoffenheim's football team is an interesting example (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/hoffenh...). They did have a rich guy backing them, though; but still came out of basically nowhere into the Bundesliga in a few short years. Though still:

> “Obviously we are not spending money like the big clubs in Germany so we are really focusing on our youth development, on our academy. There is a big number of players like Niklas Sule [sold to Bayern Munich this summer for £18m], [Jeremy] Toljan, [Nadiem] Amiri, [Philipp] Ochs who all came from our Under-17s and Under-19s. That's what we want to keep on doing: develop our own guys, but also sign players for less money who increase their market value. This is how we are working.”

Re: ESPN Can’t Afford Monday Night Football Any More

#86

Post by sctb »

JuanaMango wrote: post #81
WillyOnWheels wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about ratios. There are about 220 million White Americans. Your data claims 392 White Americans have been killed police in 2017 so far. There are about 35 million Black Americans. Your data claims 190 Black Americans have been killed by police in 2017 so far. If Black Americans were killed by police hypothetically at the same rate as White Americans, 62 Black Americans would be dead. Do you see the huge disparit…

Ratios eh? If over 90% of people killed by cops were armed, and the majority of those killed, were killed during the commission of a crime one might come to the conclusion that armed commission of crimes is the leading cause of death by cop. African Americans commit murder at a ratio 8 times that of white people. If anything black people are statistically under represented in police homicides. _would love to hear_ wh…

Users flagged your previous post because it violates the guidelines by being unsubstantive flamebait. This kind of reductionism is dumb to begin with, and uncivil when applied to people. We've banned this account and we'll ban your main one if you continue.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: ESPN Can’t Afford Monday Night Football Any More

#87

Post by acjohnson55 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #78
acjohnson55 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thoughts exactly. Their problem is that cable TV as a whole has increasingly viable substitute goods. But there's no reason ESPN can't play that same game. I imagine it's only a matter of time before they put together streaming packages they sell direct to consumer. But they'll ride the value revenue till the wheels fall off first.

The problem is ESPN was able to capture an outsized amount of revenue due to cable TV providers bundling it with other channels, so you had large amounts of people paying for it but not consuming it. Cord cutters are upending the model, requiring ESPN to swim on its own without subsidies; my personal opinion is that there aren’t enough sports fans to support it except as an over the top app similar to what HBO GO is…

Yeah, I agree with you that the gravy train is ending. But I think we mistake the ability for a business to exist at its peak or grow continually for its long-term viability. Look at the record companies. We're nearing two decades since the MP3 revolution, and most of the companies are still around in some form. ESPN, too, will have to adapt to a new post-bundle reality. But I see no real threat to their overall status as The Worldwide Leader In Sports. I'm not shedding any tears for them. They simply have to innovate.

Re: ESPN Can’t Afford Monday Night Football Any More

#88

Post by toomuchtodo »

acjohnson55 wrote: post #87
toomuchtodo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is ESPN was able to capture an outsized amount of revenue due to cable TV providers bundling it with other channels, so you had large amounts of people paying for it but not consuming it. Cord cutters are upending the model, requiring ESPN to swim on its own without subsidies; my personal opinion is that there aren’t enough sports fans to support it except as an over the top app similar to what HBO GO is…

Yeah, I agree with you that the gravy train is ending. But I think we mistake the ability for a business to exist at its peak or grow continually for its long-term viability. Look at the record companies. We're nearing two decades since the MP3 revolution, and most of the companies are still around in some form. ESPN, too, will have to adapt to a new post-bundle reality. But I see no real threat to their overall stat…

Sears is still around too, but just barely. These companies that have been passed by innovation/disruption can exist in zombie form for a long time until they finally die. See: Tower Records [+]

[+] http://www.npr.org/2009/12/29/121975854/2006-and-the-death-o...

Re: ESPN Can’t Afford Monday Night Football Any More

#89

Post by acjohnson55 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #88
acjohnson55 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I agree with you that the gravy train is ending. But I think we mistake the ability for a business to exist at its peak or grow continually for its long-term viability. Look at the record companies. We're nearing two decades since the MP3 revolution, and most of the companies are still around in some form. ESPN, too, will have to adapt to a new post-bundle reality. But I see no real threat to their overall stat…

Sears is still around too, but just barely. These companies that have been passed by innovation/disruption can exist in zombie form for a long time until they finally die. See: Tower Records [+] [+] http://www.npr.org/2009/12/29/121975854/2006-and-the-death-o...

My point is simply that it's ESPN's underlying business model that is drying up, but not its core asset of mindshare within the sports world, which remains extremely strong. I'd argue that Monday Night Football is more or less irrelevant from this perspective. They'll drop it to give themselves more runway to figure out what's next.

At the end of the day, I don't really care much whether ESPN stagnates like Sears or reinvents like Apple. But I think they live or die from a position of strength, present storm clouds aside.

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