Ironically some HN users have started believing in the coming of a "technological singularity" as a kind of religion. Even though it doesn't involve a supernatural god, it still requires faith in some kind of rapture with no scientific evidence.
The U.S. Is Retreating from Religion
81–90 of 130 posts
Re: The U.S. Is Retreating from Religion
#82I just wanted to come here and show some respect for religious communities that work very hard to help people and the world become a better place. On hacker news, I would hope we can be rational and respectful about beliefs that are important to (many real and good) people. There are many religious people/beliefs that I agree with - and many I disagree with - we can discuss that like adults. But sarcastic, unkind rem…
I'll acknowledge the hard work and kindness of (some) religious people if you'll acknowledge that we are talking about beliefs that are very obviously not true. This isn't mean to be sarcastic, it's a statement about the special treatment that religion gets. Some of us simply do not agree that the best approach to this is to hold hands and discuss it like adults -- for all of the hard work and kindness you mention, t…
I'm looking forward to all the people promoting the Salvation Army ("salvation" is not about saving clothes from the trash) this winter while I know of at least one person who got kicked out of their shelter for being a trans person. Sometimes it's hard to tell whether its promoters don't know or don't care.
Re: The U.S. Is Retreating from Religion
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Atheism is not an ideology any more than your lack of belief in invisible pink unicorns is. It is the simple absence of belief. Some atheists do have ideologies that are related to their atheism, many others do not.
Agnostic is not an ideology, not caring whether there is a god or not is not an ideology. Certainty of non-existence of God is Ideology.
> Certainty of non-existence of God is Ideology.
Maybe, but that's not what atheism means to most atheists.
Atheism is not believing in God(s). This is different from both saying "I don't know", like agnostics do and actively denying the possibility of existence in God.
Most of us, when we say "I don't believe in X" are not saying "I have absolute certainty that X does not exist". We're saying "I've not seen any reason to believe in X, so I don't". I'm not agnostic about the existence of Santa Claus - I don't believe in Santa Claus. But maybe there really is some guy living in some secret compound on the North Pole -- it is however so exceedingly unlikely that I'm not going to go around answering "I don't know" if someone ask.
Most atheists are "soft atheists" who fall in the category above, who if asked will say "God does not exist," but who if pushed will concede that just like I can't know for absolute certain that Russell's infamous teapot or Santa Claus doesn't exist, I can't absolutely rule out the existence of every conceivable definition of a God.
And this is not an ideology any more than the non-existence of Santa Claus is.
There are also "hard" atheists that insists that God 100% certainly does not, or can not, exist, and in those instances you might be right to call it an ideology. But they're a fringe - personally despite growing up among atheists I've never met one in person.
Re: The U.S. Is Retreating from Religion
#84Does religion cause the evils of human nature, or is religion merely a means of expression for the evils of human nature? I see people glad that religion is decreasing, but is there evidence that the evils of human nature are decreasing, or are they merely taking different forms?
Do you think that many young arab boys are inherently evil somehow? Think they would be beheading people just for the fun of it? The fact is they believe what they are doing is good and it’s their religion which deludes them into thinking that.
I don't disagree that those young arab boys are in a destructive environment which is associated with their religion. I'm asking a different question however.
If you removed religion from human experience, would there would be no more beheadings? Or would the elements of human nature which result in beheadings simply find a different cultural element to attach themselves to?
Re: The U.S. Is Retreating from Religion
#85Isn't the same true of membership-based organizations in general? I'm a member of 5-6 national and international membership societies, not including my church, and they are taking huge hits, especially those that are still spending like they did in the 1990s. I was surprised to get an email just after one conference: "We have run out of funds." Well, oops. But seriously, it's kind of depressing.
Is this perhaps another impact of FOMO? People don't want to commit to showing up at meetings on a regular basis in case they get a better option at the last minute.
Re: The U.S. Is Retreating from Religion
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think not. Religion: The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. [1] Atheism: Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. [2] [1] https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/religion [2] https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/atheism
Quoting a dictionary in an argument is not just bad form but completely incorrect. An English dictionary is not an authoritative source for the meaning of words -- it's a record of the usage of words by English speakers and authors. It is a tool that helps a reader survey the possible meanings of the speaker or author. It does not define the meaning of a text. You would do well to argue against the authors ideas rath…
It can be helpful to enlighten an ignorant person though. Take the bastardization of the word "literally", or even "peruse" if you want a less inflammatory example. If one person uses the word in its original meaning and another interprets that word according to a colloquially bastardized version that essentially has the opposite meaning, I think it's entirely appropriate to quote a dictionary to the misinterpreter and incumbent upon them to interpret the word in its original meaning (if at all the intention is in question).
Bastardizing words, particularly those that have a prior established meaning to a minority community like atheists, is tyranny of the majority. It's not their fault that people don't know what atheist means and interpret the word incorrectly. If you reject that notion then I think you a) endorse a recursive loop where ignorant people never have to learn new vocabulary (or worse, get to make up definitions matching what they want to believe the other person is saying) and b) the bar to exchanging information gets set unreasonably high because speakers have to constantly define terms for their audience. There is some duty to learn and understand in a conversation. If you don't know what the words mean, look them up or don't get upset when corrected. That's how you have a conversation that progresses past semantics.
Re: The U.S. Is Retreating from Religion
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
No because while religion is used to try to justify that, the real cause is just shitty people
how? does their book not say to stone gay people? if anything those people are better than their religion because they don’t stone gays, just discriminate. in fact, to be a good christian, by definition, one must hate gays. otherwise you are against your own holy text.
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Re: The U.S. Is Retreating from Religion
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
Atheism is a religion in the same way that not golfing is a sport.
Quippy but untrue. "Not golfing" doesn't have news articles, blogs, apologetic tomes, influential figure-heads, social gatherings (online and offline), charitable organizations and all sorts of life and energy-consuming efforts dedicated to it. Atheism is indeed the religion of man, who has set himself on his own throne, denied the existence of a Creator, and crowned himself god - deciding that HE will be the arbiter…
This is way too simplistic.
Most organisations promoting atheism tends to explicitly associate with ideologies that sometimes pre-suppose atheism, but are not just atheism, such as humanism. E.g. the biggest "atheist" organizations in most countries tends to be the Humanist Associations.
To the extent that there are organizations etc. "just for atheism" rather than humanism, this tends to either be tied to ideologies that either encompass just small parts of atheists, e.g. "hard" atheists who express absolute certainty in the non-belief of God, or "radical" atheists who see theism as actively damaging and something to be fought. Those you could very well consider ideologies.
Another category are groups that band together not over atheism per se, but against religiously motivated discrimination, but most of these tends to focus on secularism, not atheism per se.
Calling atheism itself an ideology because of any of the above is ascribing far more to atheism than is actually there.
Saying that there are atheist ideologies where the absence of belief in a God is an important principle is true. But atheism on it's own is the simple absence of belief.
Re: The U.S. Is Retreating from Religion
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seems a bit convenient to his point of view. Western democracy is much more strongly associated with Greek city-states like Athens and the ancient Greek leagues than Judeo-Christian theology.
"And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle." George Washington's Farewell Address https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington%27s_Farewell...
Historical quotes devoid of modern context can be found to support whatever position you want. This one specifically, while cute, lacks any argument or logic supporting its claim. And it is rather offensive to the existing large community of humanists.
Re: The U.S. Is Retreating from Religion
#90Materialism, theism and atheism are all religions.
I'm not sure what the intention of choosing to define "religion" so as to include atheism, but it might be more productive to directly state what you are getting at. When I google "religion", I get: "the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods." It reminds me of when a friend once said, "World War II just happened", and I said, "Me tying my shoe just happened, World…
I don't disagree with you, but it should be made clear that the article is talking about people with no affiliation to a religion, and not (explicitly) atheism.