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Adding Kubernetes support to the Docker platform

docker.com

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Re: Adding Kubernetes support to the Docker platform

#81

Post by InTheArena »

SEJeff wrote: post #70
raesene6 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really sure I see the vendor lock-in here. If you use Docker EE sure you're going to be locked in to their solutions to an extent but then that's true of adopting any commercial supported solution that provides layers on top of the base k8s clustering tech (e.g. Openshift). The API is still k8s and the YAML files are identical, so migration at a technical level off that platform should be easy enough. I think thi…

Openshift is open source, Docker EE is not. Big difference. https://github.com/openshift/origin

Openshift is just like Docker here. both will support Kubernetes in the openshift edition, both charge commercial support..

I'd like to see a price comparison between Docker EE and openshift, because Openshift aint cheap.

Re: Adding Kubernetes support to the Docker platform

#82

Post by InTheArena »

There is some real meat here, and things that should have been done long ago. A key thing is that the Docker network drivers (libnetwork) are becoming CNI compatable. This will vastly simplify one of the worst aspects of setting up Kubernetes, and ensure a consistent network space across containers, even if a given container is not in kube. That's nothing but awesome.

https://github.com/docker/libnetwork/pull/1978/files

Re: Adding Kubernetes support to the Docker platform

#83

Post by jadbox »

grabcocque wrote: post #5

This seems a lot to me like Docker Inc. caving in to what has been painfully obvious for a while: K8s won and Swarm/Mesos lost the battle for hearts and minds in container orchestration. We can argue about why it happened, but I got the impression Docker Inc. were desperately trying to wish it away. Now reality has intruded and I am glad, though I predict they'll continue to maintain that Swarm is a first class platf…

Not sure why you would use Rancher if you have Mesos DC/OS? Mesos eclipses every significant feature, but I'd say Rancher is easier to set up initially.

Re: Adding Kubernetes support to the Docker platform

#84

Post by pacala »

shykes wrote: post #41
ealexhudson wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I can understand "We have both and need to manage them more easily" as a request, because it's about pain right now. The thing I'm unsure about - and it would be really interesting to get your perspective on - is what this means for Swarm longer-term. Is there still going to be a reason why people will want hybrid? Is it a migration play? In a hybrid, over time I'd want to two to behave the same, and getting…

Swarm has a very special role, because it's custom-built to integrate in the Docker platform. Because it's so specific, it has a smaller standalone community than Kubernetes, but it makes up for it in focus and speed. You should expect a lot of bleeding edge features to ship in Swarm first, and a generalized version to land in kubernetes later. That's already been the case in the past: Windows support, secrets, node…

> You should expect a lot of bleeding edge features to ship in Swarm first

The development of those bleeding edge features is well hidden. The contributions graphs seem to indicate that Swarm is at best a ghost town. Perhaps the action is happening somewhere else and/or Docker will start investing in Swarm once more.

https://github.com/docker/swarm/graphs/contributors

Re: Adding Kubernetes support to the Docker platform

#85

Post by wyc »

From The Information's article "When Docker Said No to Google":

> In 2014, Google approached a startup called Docker proposing the two collaborate on software each was developing to help companies manage lots of complex applications, according to people with knowledge of the proposal. But Solomon Hykes, Docker’s founder and CTO, said no. He wanted to go it alone.

> Three years later, the cost of Mr. Hykes’ previously unreported decision is becoming apparent. The software that Google was developing was Kubernetes, an open-source product that now dominates its segment of the cloud software market. Docker’s rival software, Swarm, is also open-source but isn’t anywhere near as popular, two former Docker employees say.

https://www.theinformation.com/when-docker-said-no-to-google (Sorry...it's paywalled :/)

Re: Adding Kubernetes support to the Docker platform

#86

Post by InTheArena »

wyc wrote: post #85

From The Information's article "When Docker Said No to Google": > In 2014, Google approached a startup called Docker proposing the two collaborate on software each was developing to help companies manage lots of complex applications, according to people with knowledge of the proposal. But Solomon Hykes, Docker’s founder and CTO, said no. He wanted to go it alone. > Three years later, the cost of Mr. Hykes’ previously…

Yep, Kudos for Docker for learning from their mistakes... But it's also a reminder of how powerful being low on the stack is.

Re: Adding Kubernetes support to the Docker platform

#87

Post by raesene6 »

SEJeff wrote: post #70
raesene6 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really sure I see the vendor lock-in here. If you use Docker EE sure you're going to be locked in to their solutions to an extent but then that's true of adopting any commercial supported solution that provides layers on top of the base k8s clustering tech (e.g. Openshift). The API is still k8s and the YAML files are identical, so migration at a technical level off that platform should be easy enough. I think thi…

Openshift is open source, Docker EE is not. Big difference. https://github.com/openshift/origin

As InTheArena says, both Docker EE and Openshift have Open source cores and then supply commercial support and additions to suppplement them.

It's a pretty common model amongst these companies, and hey they've got to make money somehow :)

Re: Adding Kubernetes support to the Docker platform

#88

Post by raesene6 »

jadbox wrote: post #80
raesene6 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really sure I see the vendor lock-in here. If you use Docker EE sure you're going to be locked in to their solutions to an extent but then that's true of adopting any commercial supported solution that provides layers on top of the base k8s clustering tech (e.g. Openshift). The API is still k8s and the YAML files are identical, so migration at a technical level off that platform should be easy enough. I think thi…

Huh, how does Openshift compare with Mesos DC/OS? Sounds similar

I've not look too much at Mesos and DC/OS, so could be wrong, but my understanding is that where Openshift is focused on managing containerized workloads using Kubernetes and Docker or CRI-O , Mesos and DC/OS are more widely focused on managing a variety of workloads which could include containers but also VMs etc.

For me, the benefit of Openshift over vanilla Kubernetes is the additional management tooling and the strong default settings for production use.

Openshift has a lot of focus on things like manageability and security which make it well suited to production workloads in enterprises and anecodotally it seems to be taking off quite well in enterprise customers.

Re: Adding Kubernetes support to the Docker platform

#89

Post by SEJeff »

InTheArena wrote: post #81
SEJeff wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Openshift is open source, Docker EE is not. Big difference. https://github.com/openshift/origin

Openshift is just like Docker here. both will support Kubernetes in the openshift edition, both charge commercial support.. I'd like to see a price comparison between Docker EE and openshift, because Openshift aint cheap.

Except it isn't, because things in Docker EE aren't open source (case in point, docker datacenter), where as all of openshift is opensource.

Your fallacy is comparing a product that is open core, with a product that is commercial open source.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-OpenShi...

Re: Adding Kubernetes support to the Docker platform

#90

Post by bankss »

pacala wrote: post #79
bankss wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think several others have commented on this, but the learning curve of Swarm seems insignificant to the setup and implementation of a k8s cluster. I work with a team of four total developers and realistically two of us handle the vast majority of "operations." As a result, what was important for us in orchestration was ease of setup, speed of initial implementation, and the lowest immediate and ongoing difficulty a…

I've been running solo a GKE cluster for almost 2 years. Maaaybe I spent 1 week on eng effort on it.

GKE, from the research I have done, and the small cluster I built for a side project, smooths out many of the particularly challenging aspects of a k8s implementation. I mean it is advertised as a managed service, I do not think that is particularly comparable to setting up a raw k8s cluster or Docker Swarm cluster yourself. Would you feel that is an accurate assessment?

My company is currently fairly locked into another DO for misc. reasons, and as a result would be deploying to DO, where you do not have the benefit of all of the automated tooling/management provided by GKE.

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