I wonder why almost nobody mentioned "ethics". Besides the arguments in the blog post, is it morally OK to start a business in a dictatorship? I am not so sure about it.
Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China
81–90 of 122 posts
Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China
#82I lived in China in 2008 and while I'm no expert on China, you will learn quite quickly that some of your perceptions about China are not true: - In china, you can pay a programmer 600€ a month Sure, for average programmers. For good ones, you are going to be paying the same as elsewhere. A friend of mine there told me her brother was earning nearly $500 US/day working as a programmer for a company and they even gave…
Their educational system focuses more on memorization. Creativity and problem solving are not taught very much. This is going to be a huge problem when hiring programmers right out of university. They will be looking to you to tell them everything they should be doing. Why do you believe this is different than in the US? While I've never hired programmers right out of university, most of the students I taught in univ…
Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China
#83Actually to maintain a western standard of living your costs will probably be more in china, since many western brand name products are imported (despite being made in china). For example an apartment in shanghai can cost more than one in NYC, iPhone costs more, etc. Whatever you do, avoid street food.
Agreed with the cost of living. No matter where you go in the world, if you want to live an American lifestyle - car, big house/apartment, western products - you will pay just about the same as living in the US. However, if you can live like a local, your cost of living will drop dramatically. I never had a problem with street food.
Even my relatives stopped buying street food for me there. Generally it's really unsanitary. Even street food in NYC is unsanitary, china is definitely worse.
Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China
#84China's great until you have to go to court there and realize you're being totally screwed over because your opponent has an "in" with the government. There are countries like Australia and Canada that strike a nice middle ground between too much and too little regulation, have decent, stable economies right now, and solid relationships with China in the case you want to partner with a company there. But I've heard t…
Canada is a clear win. Set up a corporation in a single day. Fairly straightforward taxes (not the lowest around, but still fairly simple). Technical cities (Waterloo, Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa). Zero corruption, unless you're in the construction industry, but effectively nothing. Easy employee termination (2 weeks pay without cause, 0 weeks pay with cause). Low occurrence of lawsuits, especially medical, and much s…
* Tax breaks (such as the federal SR&ED[1]) for high-tech businesses. I believe Vancouver has the largest by province, especially if you're in entertainment technology (like special effects) or video games.
* They consider themselves not a melting pot but a mosaic of people; i.e., there is no jingoistic pressure from the bumper-sticker patriots for foreigners to join the suburban zombie horde and conform conform conform, aside from at least learning english or french. Plus, you can sort of feel a fondness (rather than a passing, almost aloof acknowledgement) of their natives (deferentially called "First Nations"). The culture is one of acceptance, rather than impatient urgence to adapt.
* There is an odd reluctance to trusting outsized corporations, especially from what I've seen in Vancouver. Maybe it's just me, or perhaps it's their culture, but where I am now in the US, there are miles upon miles of strip malls with the same 30-40 chains and/or big box stores (Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Bed Bath Beyond, TJ Maxx/HomeGoods, Olive Garden, Dollar Tree, etc.) and small business storefronts (aside from family-run ethnic restaurants) are almost non-existent. I see alot better mix of corporate behemoth vs. mom-and-pop shop in Vancouver. Could just be a big city thing (although, last I checked, NYC was looking more like a concrete version of a big-box store suburb rather than its "if I can make it here..." bootstrappy romantic past).
[1]Strategic Research and Experimental Development - http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/sred/
Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would you want to work for a place that wants to fire you but can't because of governmental regulation?
It's not the gov't regulation that is the problem but how integrated your job is to your lifestyle. You can't rent an apartment without either having a sufficiently large deposit or having your employer cosign for you. You can't open a bank account without having a job (for example, after arriving in Paris, I walked into HSBC to open an account with 2000€ cash, the manager said I should take it to the post office). F…
As far as lawsuits go, that is really more about government regulation. Depending on the what the regulations say, getting sued may or may not be a real concern.
Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Create value and it will suck to fire you.
Yes, I know this - but life's not always fair now is it ? In this particular case it might not be a problem since Max can keep an eye on his employees , but as soon as you have a manager - you might be very afraid to get on his bad side (maybe in an argument over something technical or a complaint about your chair) for fear of getting fired.
Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China
#87China's great until you have to go to court there and realize you're being totally screwed over because your opponent has an "in" with the government. There are countries like Australia and Canada that strike a nice middle ground between too much and too little regulation, have decent, stable economies right now, and solid relationships with China in the case you want to partner with a company there. But I've heard t…
> But I've heard too many horror stories from entrepreneurs getting burned in China to want to put all my chips in that stack. I had a girlfriend who was working at a Chinese media company five years ago, and her company said something unpleasant (true) things about an important company in the local province. The mayor called up the newspaper, and was pressuring them... it turned out alright in the end, but it was a…
Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
But the weather sucks.
http://www.theweathernetwork.com/weather/caon0441
Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China
#89I lived in China in 2008 and while I'm no expert on China, you will learn quite quickly that some of your perceptions about China are not true: - In china, you can pay a programmer 600€ a month Sure, for average programmers. For good ones, you are going to be paying the same as elsewhere. A friend of mine there told me her brother was earning nearly $500 US/day working as a programmer for a company and they even gave…
I moved my startup from the US to Hong Kong in 2007. I've spent the last three years there and in Southern China doing business. At the moment, I've moved back to the US (to LA) for a new venture, though I still have things running in Hong Kong (I'll be back next month).
For anyone interested in running a startup in Southern China, I'd be happy to answer questions. Getting things going in China is not easy. It's much easier to bootstrap in Hong Kong or Singapore while you get your bearings and then moving into mainland China later. And this comes from someone fluent in Mandarin Chinese.
If you are interested in doing things in that area, I recommend getting in touch with the Hong Kong Startup Association and introducing yourself there. The community is small and very supportive. Also the Hong Kong BarCamp is coming up soon, make sure to attend that if you can.
Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China
#90China's great until you have to go to court there and realize you're being totally screwed over because your opponent has an "in" with the government. There are countries like Australia and Canada that strike a nice middle ground between too much and too little regulation, have decent, stable economies right now, and solid relationships with China in the case you want to partner with a company there. But I've heard t…
India has a fairer legal system. It offers a great balance between what Max wanted and what you describe. I'm curious why didn't India come up as an option for Max.