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Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

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Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#81

Post by SamReidHughes »

briholt wrote: post #56
bradleyjg wrote: post #28

I'd be more impressed if they committed to hiring employees that don't already have the skills they are looking for and doing on the job training. That would be far more effective both in terms of actual skills transfer and in terms of future career trajectory than Yet More Retraining Programs untethered from any actual employer or employment opportunities. We've been doing the latter since at least the Kennedy admin…

Another major glaring problem that no one wants to admit is that lots of tech work requires (at the very least) college-level-IQ, which excludes the majority of the population. And the lower-IQ jobs are quickly being automated away.

A college-level IQ these days means something low like 100 -- you're probably thinking of a more stringent standard.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#82

Post by was_boring »

blackguardx wrote: post #63
dyarosla wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What criteria determines who should get a position then? What salary should those positions command? Sounds pretty handwavy. Edit: responders to this comment seem to miss that the parent comment is suggesting Google hire new individuals and train them, not find talent in their workforce and do training there. Thats the unrealistic part- creating a secondary application process for individuals without the skills -- wh…

On the job training was pretty standard in the tech industry in the past. I worked with a guy at an HP (oldest high-tech co. in CA) spinoff that was the head embedded software architect and worked his way up from the machine shop in the '70s. He started out manning a drill press and learned to program when they started using NC (numeric control) machine tools. Do you think Google lets anyone to work their way up from…

This is basically how my mother was trained as a programmer. She got a job, was literally handed a stack of books and reference material and started figuring shit out.

She changed careers before I can really remember her at that job, but I too am self-taught in this field (but I trained myself at home).

The whole idea of companies not investing in their people is relatively new.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#83

Post by Apocryphon »

swendoog wrote: post #80
Apocryphon wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution to lower wages created by more workers isn't to clamp down on the supply. The solution is to unionize and to ensure that labor has leverage through collective bargaining. Trying to play gatekeeper against bringing in more workers seems as wrongheaded as arguing against building more homes in a housing crisis.

Unions? How has that worked for every other craft industry in the US? Forgive my crass reply, but, I have only seen unions become weaker and weaker in the U.S. And even when they were "strong" they didn't protect labor interests against increases in labor supply. Globalization has wrecked a number of industries, which unions were powerless against. The strongest card in the hand of any laborer is their scarcity. Also…

Doctors, actors, pro athletes. There are many types of guilds and professional associations beyond unions.

Furthermore, if tech is about disrupting everything, including the nature of work itself (through on-demand) and even the nature of human relations itself (through social media), then surely some attempt could be made to better labor relations by inventing a better type of union. It's especially rich to hear "no, it can't happen, it's always failed in the past" comments wrt labor unions come from workers who work in an industry that's supposedly all about innovation.

I wasn't trying to attack you for your original comment, in any case. You actually offer good advice. But my general sentiment is that we shouldn't try to restrict the labor market- it seems as wrongheaded as trying to fight gentrification by limiting house construction just because some of those units will be luxury condos instead of affordable housing- and that lowered wages could be fought by the presence of a tech union that protects tech workers.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#84

Post by aswanson »

Top19 wrote: post #36

As much as something like this is appreciated, the history of job retraining programs are filled with over promises, under-commitments, and disaster, stretching back to the 1970’s. There is no need to train more CS people. There is a need for recovering the “grand bargain” between employers and employees that began in the 1940’s and was slowly unwound beginning in the mid 1970’s. The reason that business schools exis…

That "grand bargain" is over, and never returning. The economy is global, cutthroat and changes on a dime. Every man/woman is in a mercenary situation today, whether they're aware of this fact or not.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#85

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

tptacek wrote: post #72
wehere1 wrote: post #2

always remember: the industry's involvement in CS education has less to do with philanthropy and goodwill than it does with lowering the cost of labor over the long term

You'd need a scanning electron microscope to detect the tiny violin playing for people complaining about labor oversupply while making integer multiples of the median US household income building up an industry premised on automating away everyone else's jobs. Stop worrying about your wages! Your job will eventually be automated away. A basic income is sure to protect you.

There are already places that require tons of experience to even get an IT job. Complete automation and centralization of IT jobs isn't required to strongly impact American lives.

Not everyone lives in a tech hub of the country.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#86

Post by dqpb »

wehere1 wrote: post #2

always remember: the industry's involvement in CS education has less to do with philanthropy and goodwill than it does with lowering the cost of labor over the long term

This sounds like fixed pie logic to me.

My intuition is that the Pareto optional solution is one where nearly everyone is proficient in engineering. I see engineering as the new reading/writing. I think an engineering literate society would be more valuable and stable than our current society is.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#87

Post by Y7ZCQtNo39 »

notyourday wrote: post #70
merpnderp wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Programming is sufficiently hard enough, wages will always be higher than most other professions. If I could make this money just about any other way, I'd likely give it a go. But either be a PA, a doctor, or one of the lucky few who graduate law school and make good money (and I think PA's make less than most programmers I know). Otherwise be a programmer.

$35k/year developer on H1B

Most developers aren't on H1B. There's what, tens of thousands on H1B, and hundreds of thousands of tech workers. While it's true some developers are underpaid, they are few in number and presumably of little significance on the prevailing developer wage.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#88

Post by bkeroack »

jasonlotito wrote: post #52
bkeroack wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...which will depress the wages of everyone on HN reading these words. Especially entry level engineers or those without CS degrees. "Coding bootcamps" are the new DeVry IT program of the 2010s.

What people tend to forget is that Google and others were involved in anti-poaching deals that kept the wages of workers down. What people don't realize is that this affected you whether you worked for Google or some company competing with Google. After all, if they could match Google's artificially lower salary, or get near it, they were good. Those actions hurt everyone in the industry. While it's great they are wo…

Exactly. Instead of colluding to artificially depress wages, flood the market with trainees to naturally and legally accomplish the same end.

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#89

Post by [deleted] »

briholt wrote: post #56
bradleyjg wrote: post #28

I'd be more impressed if they committed to hiring employees that don't already have the skills they are looking for and doing on the job training. That would be far more effective both in terms of actual skills transfer and in terms of future career trajectory than Yet More Retraining Programs untethered from any actual employer or employment opportunities. We've been doing the latter since at least the Kennedy admin…

Another major glaring problem that no one wants to admit is that lots of tech work requires (at the very least) college-level-IQ, which excludes the majority of the population. And the lower-IQ jobs are quickly being automated away.

[deleted]

Re: Google commits $1B in grants to train U.S. workers for high-tech jobs

#90

Post by huac »

Top19 wrote: post #36

As much as something like this is appreciated, the history of job retraining programs are filled with over promises, under-commitments, and disaster, stretching back to the 1970’s. There is no need to train more CS people. There is a need for recovering the “grand bargain” between employers and employees that began in the 1940’s and was slowly unwound beginning in the mid 1970’s. The reason that business schools exis…

> business schools exist on university campuses in the first place is because they were supposed to train business leaders to aspire to the same ideals as a university

Harvard Business School was founded to promote Taylorism and fight back against unions and organized labor.

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