After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America • Hacker News Board

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#81

Post by reaperducer » Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 5:15 PM UTC

leggomylibro wrote: post #41

>because disability payments on average amount to less than minimum wage, sometimes much less, ... Why is this? How are these people expected to survive, if they are disabled to the point that they can't hold down a job, and aren't allowed to work without the risk of losing their disability payments? Busking? I know that's been one traditional job for disabled people over the centuries, but I feel like we should be a…

It's so the U.S. doesn't end up with an epidemic of people "on the dole" like they have in the U.K.

PBS viewers may know it as Onslow Syndrome.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#82

Post by emperorcezar » Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 5:17 PM UTC

javajosh wrote: post #19

24gttghh wrote: post #6

> She lit a home-rolled cigarette and, getting to work with a mattock, tried to ignore the weather. She had lately been telling herself that she had to stop taking these risks. They were more than an hour from the nearest hospital, and what if she had another heart attack? Yeah...she seems to be ignoring the heart-attack risk she is pumping into her lungs while she says that. I get that it's an addiction that is hard…

This article makes plain that she, and everyone she knows are, economically speaking, dead-men walking. And there is a certain dignity offering someone a smoke before they accept their doom. The question that plagues me is: can I give her a job? What could this woman do, online or off, that would be valuable to society? Is Mechanical Turk, marketed to the rural poor, a solution?

You assume they have the resources to do online work, like an internet connection capable of doing so and the capital to get that connection before doing the work. Also a computer or phone capable of doing the work.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#83

Post by ghostbrainalpha » Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 5:17 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #59

caseysoftware wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I remember one of the political parties crowing about how they saved the auto industry in Michigan during the last major financial crisis. Funny, as I live there, and I remember one of the people who lives in my sub whose business was destroyed by this "saving" thanks to many long held overdue invoices at one of the car company's being zeroed out, coming to my front door, with his son to ask for help. Food specific…

If debts would never be forgiven/default, then lenders would not be able to charge interest. Likewise, while they don't charge interest, contractors factor not getting paid for 90 days after work completion into their rates.

What?

If you had a 100% guarantee of getting your money back next year, would you loan me all of your savings for this year? You will receive no other compensation for lending me this money.

If debts were never forgiven, maybe interest rates would be lower, but lenders are still providing a service for which an interest rate must be paid.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#84

Post by notlisted » Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 5:17 PM UTC

24gttghh wrote: post #6

> She lit a home-rolled cigarette and, getting to work with a mattock, tried to ignore the weather. She had lately been telling herself that she had to stop taking these risks. They were more than an hour from the nearest hospital, and what if she had another heart attack? Yeah...she seems to be ignoring the heart-attack risk she is pumping into her lungs while she says that. I get that it's an addiction that is hard…

Hmmm. Smoking is more cost-effective than eating in many parts of the USA. Plenty of research exists as well on the self-medication benefits of nicotine use (ADHD, depression, etc.)

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#85

Post by ams6110 » Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 5:18 PM UTC

deadmetheny wrote: post #39

ams6110 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what do you do when the fish are just gone? Move to where the fish are. The economy isn't terrible everywhere.

I know this is hard for valley drones with no loyalties to comprehend, but not everyone is able or afford to move in the first place, or willing to move even if they could scrape it. Moving is expensive and when the only thing in the world you have is your family and friends, would you just up and give that up? Especially for those who are not in their 20s. And where do you live when you do move, when you have no mon…

I live nowhere near "the valley" and yes, moving to where the work is is what people did in past hard times. Sometimes moving across the ocean (immigrants to the USA in the early 20th century).

Maybe we should be helping people with relocation instead of enabling their miserable existence where they are.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#86

Post by thaumaturgy » Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 5:19 PM UTC

24gttghh wrote: post #6

> She lit a home-rolled cigarette and, getting to work with a mattock, tried to ignore the weather. She had lately been telling herself that she had to stop taking these risks. They were more than an hour from the nearest hospital, and what if she had another heart attack? Yeah...she seems to be ignoring the heart-attack risk she is pumping into her lungs while she says that. I get that it's an addiction that is hard…

This kind of sentiment is exactly why more liberals need to read more articles like this one. If you've never lived that life, it's easy to sit back and proclaim for someone else how much better things might be for them if only they didn't do things the way they do. It makes it easy to dismiss their problems as entirely their own fault while we get to feel good about giving out some solid advice.

Those cigarettes and that beer is what keeps her going every month. They are likely her only real source of meager happiness.

She doesn't have Netflix. Internet. Literally, a toilet to piss into. She doesn't smoke them because she's addicted, she smokes them because they make her life, for a short term, a little tiny bit better.

Y'ever notice how, the poorer people are, the worse their habits are? How they tend to eat more junk food, exercise less, spend more money on trivial things? Yeah, that's why. Healthy living is a luxury and an awful lot of folks have forgotten about that.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#87

Post by bluejellybean » Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 5:21 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #74

zrail wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is because all the wealthy, educated, white people left Detroit proper in the late 1960s. Some moved north to Oakland County but Wayne County covers a lot of area other than Detroit itself. Washtenaw County is likely up there because of the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. The biggest hospital by gross revenue, third biggest by bed count is here, as are a whole bunch of research parks related to the automoti…

Right, my point is just that "Detroit" isn't really a great way to judge the Rust Belt. It is in a bad situation but doesn't characterize the region very well.

Well I can't speak much for the surrounding Detroit area (haven't spent much time over there) but there is a joke in Ann Arbor that its '20 square miles surrounded by reality'

Whenever I visit at the surrounding metros in Michigan, places like Flint, Lancing, Grand Rapids, etc.. I can't help but agree with the joke.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#88

Post by ianai » Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 5:22 PM UTC

SirRhosis wrote: post #60

hpcjoe wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not awful over a short term. Over a longer term, it will price commodities out of reach. I've watched milk prices rise dramatically over the last 5 years or so. This is in part due to the costs of production rising, not necessarily the farm margins. These costs of production rise for any number of reasons, but mostly its because rising costs tend to spread out through the economy. [1] My point is that prices will…

Milk inflation is not that significant. Five dollars of milk in 2000 will cost you 6.51 USD today[0]. It's actually lower this year than it was in 2014[1]. [0] - http://www.in2013dollars.com/Milk/price-inflation [1] - https://ycharts.com/indicators/milk_price

Milk is also not a necessity for survival. Also over the longer term the UBI would increase at the base inflation rate. It would have to move in relation to all things.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#89

Post by hestipod » Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 5:22 PM UTC

forkandwait wrote: post #24

So why can't we invest enough time and money in these people to make them engineers and technicians? Then they might be able to start shops that make and distribute the tourist trinkets mentioned by another poster. Why is the only solution that a large company that someone else creates moves in and provides low skill jobs?

I have been trying to find a way to earn and live remotely for a long time amidst constant instability, more medical issues, more costs, and people in general making it worse. Vocational rehab programs are a joke. Despite common belief "everyone" isn't on disability in America and many like myself are in fact rejected. I have no health coverage. No safety. I am expected to do things I cannot do just to live or create some business or job from the ether but nobody can say how except flighty nonsense like "so and so's son makes Android apps and is successful" as if that means its as simple as "learning and doing that" while totally ignoring survivorship bias, my age, my lack of resources or all of the other relevant and real issues.. I am close to giving up on life entirely as I am so far down and have no feasible plan.

Re: After the check is gone: The underground economy of rural America

#90

Post by hiram112 » Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 5:24 PM UTC

knz wrote: post #79

refurb wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disability is often done on a percentage basis. If you're completely unable to work you get 100%. If you can't stand for a long time, but can sit and work, you might get 30% disability. Even at 100% it's not a lot of money, but I've heard it's enough to exist.

> but I've heard it's enough to exist. How does health insurance/care work for these people? Do you automatically qualify for the government programs (MA?) if you are even partially disabled?

With the ACA, you will qualify for full insurance due to grants. But if these people have already qualified for federal / state disability payments, they will almost certainly be entitled to some combination of SSDI / Medicare / Medicaid.