Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos • Hacker News Board

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#81

Post by KGIII » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 12:12 AM UTC

centimeter wrote: post #46

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, are these organizations literally fighting poachers? I.e. we're saying that an elephant's life is more valuable than a human's? That's an interesting moral question.

Is an elephant’s life more valuable than a randomly selected human? Probably not. Is an elephant’s life worth more than someone who poaches endangered animals? Probably. Also, these poachers are usually armed and willing to kill for their poach. The best defense against an idiot with a WWII export AK variant is a smarter person with a much longer-range weapon.

The article indicates these elephants were taken legally. So, in this case, I'm pretty sure we aren't actually discussing poachers.

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#82

Post by KGIII » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 12:15 AM UTC

jimrandomh wrote: post #68

a2tech wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll outright say it-an endangered animal's life is more valuable then a randomly selected human's. You could kill 10 or 100 humans for each of an endangered species and make no (net) difference in the ability of the human race to survive.

So if you could choose between saving the lives of five elephants, or preventing the Las Vegas shooting, you'd choose the elephants? That seems to be what you're saying.

I don't know if that's what they are saying, but I would say that. Tragic though the Vegas shooting was, humans aren't an endangered species.

Don't get me wrong, I happily hunt and fish. I clean and process dead animals with great frequency. The difference, in this case, is that elephants are truly at risk of extinction.

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#83

Post by KGIII » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 12:21 AM UTC

jimrandomh wrote: post #67

bactrian wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is whether it's okay to shoot first at a gang of heavily armed criminals, or whether you have to attempt an arrest first.

Yes, you have to attempt an arrest first. Poaching is not a capital crime.

I think Kenya is one place where poaching is a capital crime. They issued a shoot to kill order some years ago. It made the news and I'm not sure of the efficacy of such programs.

Importantly, this isn't poaching. This was lawful collection of elephants. Morality aside, this does provide funding for cash- strapped nations and some of that funding goes to protection of stressed animal populations.

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#84

Post by adamnemecek » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 12:23 AM UTC

KGIII wrote: post #83

jimrandomh wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you have to attempt an arrest first. Poaching is not a capital crime.

I think Kenya is one place where poaching is a capital crime. They issued a shoot to kill order some years ago. It made the news and I'm not sure of the efficacy of such programs. Importantly, this isn't poaching. This was lawful collection of elephants. Morality aside, this does provide funding for cash- strapped nations and some of that funding goes to protection of stressed animal populations.

> Morality aside

Yeah let's not do that.

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#85

Post by KGIII » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 12:27 AM UTC

adamnemecek wrote: post #84

KGIII wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Kenya is one place where poaching is a capital crime. They issued a shoot to kill order some years ago. It made the news and I'm not sure of the efficacy of such programs. Importantly, this isn't poaching. This was lawful collection of elephants. Morality aside, this does provide funding for cash- strapped nations and some of that funding goes to protection of stressed animal populations.

> Morality aside Yeah let's not do that.

I'm not comfortable attempting to force my morality on other people and other cultures, and I think it detracts from our ability to be objective.

I personally dislike zoos and don't visit them. At the same time, I'm not comfortable telling you how you should feel.

Re: Footage shows young elephants being captured for Chinese zoos

#86

Post by animal531 » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 12:58 PM UTC

mfoy_ wrote: post #58

centimeter wrote: post #48

I wonder if legalizing the sale of elephants, rhino horns, etc. (but still protecting the ones in the wild) would lead to a sort of positive version of the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect After all, if you can make tons of money selling rhino horns (but know you’ll get shot if you kill an existing rhino to do it), people might start putting a lot of money into rhino farms, which could be good for the glo…

No. People weren't "farming" them before laws cracked down on it. Laws cracked down on it precisely because of how people were going about getting ivory. Besides, we're not aiming for pure population count... imagine the shitty quality of life an "ivory farm elephant" would have? And after they take the horn or tusk, what then? Meat?

Rhino horn for example regrows at about 9cm per year, which is worth very roughly $2000-$15000 (I'm unsure about recent prices).

So they can be farmed and have decent lives. The trick is that if the price is high they're still going to get poached. If the price is low then it'll be too costly to feed them and it won't be worth it in the first place.