Even though it's a bit forced, I agree that the whole mainstream computer field as a weird non ROI. Machines 10000x faster, personal value/productivity: flat or below.
How do you measure that, though? It seems like you have to ignore all value derived from networks in order to come to the conclusion that software is no more powerful than in the 90s. In the 90s I couldn't have met with my team, with members in Moscow, California, Pennsylvania, and Texas, in any reasonable way...today I can chat, including video and sound, on a whim! Managing source code today is massively more produ…
It’s time to kill the web app
81–90 of 717 posts
Re: It’s time to kill the web app
#82>> We desperately need a way of conveniently distributing sandboxed, secure, auto-updating apps to desktops and laptops. What's the proposal? * App stores controlled by juggernaut companies, doing the app-screening? * Signing web apps bu an authority? * Writing in "safe" languages in java/rust/..? * Java applets? * Adobe Flash? Silverlight? * Uglified, minimized encrypted JS code? * or Win95 style self-extracting ins…
Probably Webassembly.
Re: It’s time to kill the web app
#83But the real thing is: the "web platform" is not the result of a design process, it's the result of a war. It's the stalemate point between so many competing technologies. It's the no-mans-land between warring monopolists.
Any monopolist could have given us a "tidier" solution (although probably not secure either!) We could have had the ActiveX future, or even a global Minitel system. The web is uniquely in persisting without yet fully falling to any "winner takes all" effect.
Re: It’s time to kill the web app
#84Fun fact: The colorful Windows 98 explorer sidebar that is shown in the first screenshot was implemented as HTML (and Javascript), along with the desktop background (called active desktop).
Re: It’s time to kill the web app
#85> Web apps can't use real sockets.
Because security is an important consideration, and websockets are designed to live within the constraints of the same-origin policy, which helps immensely in creating apps that are secure by default.
> Things as basic as UI components are a disaster zone. [Links to article about web components]
Web components are a failed/failing/doomed (IMO) proposed standard and are nothing but an implementation of the idea of UI components. The design of web components is about building component object hierarchies, and is doomed to fail (IMO) in a markup language built around content composition. Saying UI components are a disaster because (one guy says, though I agree) web components are a disaster is like saying "a square won't fit here, so obviously no rectangles will fit."
> HTML5 has peer to peer video streaming
No, it doesn't. Browsers support the completely-separate WebRTC specification and its related javascript APIs. No HTML spec says anything about WebRTC.
My suggestion would be that if you want to replace something, you need to actually grok it first, or at least have a sufficient understanding of the complexities (and the reasons they exist) you're trying to argue against. Otherwise it's way too easy to point out that you don't really know what you're asking to replace, and your opinions, while potentially valid, are going to be tossed with the rest of the bath water.
Re: It’s time to kill the web app
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's cause the web is full of hype. Try Python Flask. A three line Python function and you are going. No magic. Just request and response. It is easy. Bang out a model class and read the SQLAlchemy tutorial. The web and RDBMS with just enough magic. Screw HTML front ends. Write the ugliest HTML you want. Never spend time in HTML. Make your app / idea work. Get your data right. Front ends and modern front end tech s…
> Write the ugliest HTML you want. Never spend time in HTML. Make your app / idea work. Huh? That HTML is what your users will spend 90% of their time interacting with. They won't care one bit what RDBMS you're using. Front end development is deeply frustrating but it's also incredibly important.
tags for vertical spacing instead of an elegant CSS styling property.
Edit : just want to make it clear that I'm trying to paraphrase here, I don't know if I agree (although I do want to point out that HN is built in this philosophy)
Re: It’s time to kill the web app
#87It's probably not realistic, but I would love to see the web be completely thrown out and replaced with something reasonable. I write a decent amount of native code. I write Rust, C, and x64 assembly. I think I'm pretty good at this stuff. But the web is too much for me. Any time I think I'd like to do something with the web and sit down to learn, it's completely overwhelming. I've never been able to put together a c…
My experience has been the opposite. I first learned C in college, and loved making command line interfaces but never understood how to make GUI applications. When I was introduced to browser hosted front-ends, laying out interfaces for GUI apps seemed a lot simpler and made a lot more sense. Python was the first language where I was able to figure out how to write a GUI for an application running fully contained on a device. It might just be me, but it doesn't seem like a lot of programming language training paths emphasize the human user interface (command line, GUI, or otherwise). The web platform definitely does.
Re: It’s time to kill the web app
#88There's one big problem with killing the web: Apple's App Store. You can make all the new platforms you want, but they will never be allowed to replace the App Store for distribution. The web is the only platform that can do distribution outside of the App Store on iOS and Apple will never allow a second one. That means your platform can't have hyperlinks between apps, can't have a no-install experience, can't do jus…
Re: It’s time to kill the web app
#89Lost me in the opening paragraph. "For the first time"? Please, people have been openly questioning the web platform for a decade now.
Ever since mobile (and their native apps) starting "killing off the desktop".
Ever since people downloaded their first PhoneGap/Cordova app, and saw how badly it looks and behaves compared to native widgets.
Ever since people pulled up a task manager, and noticed how much RAM and CPU that Electron-based app was using.
On the other hand... we've been openly questioning native too, ever since basic social media apps starting weighing a hundred megs each. Every platform has its problems.
Re: It’s time to kill the web app
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's cause the web is full of hype. Try Python Flask. A three line Python function and you are going. No magic. Just request and response. It is easy. Bang out a model class and read the SQLAlchemy tutorial. The web and RDBMS with just enough magic. Screw HTML front ends. Write the ugliest HTML you want. Never spend time in HTML. Make your app / idea work. Get your data right. Front ends and modern front end tech s…
> Write the ugliest HTML you want. Never spend time in HTML. Make your app / idea work. Huh? That HTML is what your users will spend 90% of their time interacting with. They won't care one bit what RDBMS you're using. Front end development is deeply frustrating but it's also incredibly important.