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Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

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Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#81

I understand why Twitter might not want ISIS accounts on their service but from a national security standpoint, it seems better to have the communication happening on a U.S.-based service like Twitter than some darknet or crypto-centric app.

Agreed, and this should be the retort to any curtailing of free speech in the name of safety. Its the same argument as allowing “the_donald” to exist on Reddit. You will not stop an ideology by denying them a platform. Better to debate them in an open forum, even if they are evil. The only way to counter bad ideas is with good ones.

>The only way to counter bad ideas is with good ones.

Absolute rubbish; bad ideas spread through people, thus you need to be able to reach people when you counter bad ideas, but people generally aren't controlled by their rationality, they are attached to ideas and stick with them. The idea that if only for example Jewish interest groups had debated the Nazis more, then the Nazis would have been shown to have bad ideas is ridiculous.

Some ideas, as Marcuse put it, block the democratic process and this blockage may require apparently undemocratic means to remove.

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#82

I understand why Twitter might not want ISIS accounts on their service but from a national security standpoint, it seems better to have the communication happening on a U.S.-based service like Twitter than some darknet or crypto-centric app.

Agreed, and this should be the retort to any curtailing of free speech in the name of safety. Its the same argument as allowing “the_donald” to exist on Reddit. You will not stop an ideology by denying them a platform. Better to debate them in an open forum, even if they are evil. The only way to counter bad ideas is with good ones.

I'd suggest that your sentiments map very nicely onto a rationalist view of the world but poorly onto reality. I think this more generally falls into a bias some hyper-logical people propagate, that since they assume they make decisions primarily with logic, that others must do the same as well.

It inherently assumes that A) people vulnerable to being recruited into a suicidal death cult are thinking logically, and B) such people can be logically talked out of their ideology.

If instead one assumes that emotional connection is the primary driver of the recruiting success in question, it follows that disrupting this pipeline would yield more success than attempting to reason with talented recruiters who aren't trying to have a fair and logical debate.

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter is a business - they are not rounding people up for extermination. This is a poor, and hyperbolic comparison.

It might not be the best comparison, but OP was on-target with their last sentence: "Who defines what is considered terrorism and what isn't? Once censorship infrastructure is in place, it will get abused." Today, it's ISIS. Well, that's OK -- they're clearly terrorists. Tomorrow, it's the KKK and White Supremacy groups. Well, that's OK too -- they're racists. Next month, it's climate change deniers -- that's probabl…

If the slope were that slippery, you couldn't do anything: "Now you want me to do the dishes. But if I agree to that, you will soon ask me to build a spaceship!"

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#84

I understand why Twitter might not want ISIS accounts on their service but from a national security standpoint, it seems better to have the communication happening on a U.S.-based service like Twitter than some darknet or crypto-centric app.

Agreed, and this should be the retort to any curtailing of free speech in the name of safety. Its the same argument as allowing “the_donald” to exist on Reddit. You will not stop an ideology by denying them a platform. Better to debate them in an open forum, even if they are evil. The only way to counter bad ideas is with good ones.

Agree it's better to debate in an open forum. Free speech should permit the exchange of all ideas, even "evil" ones. But isn't it a bit disingenuous to compare r/The_Donald to ISIS, since the latter is inciting violence?

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes? Are you afraid they can defeat you with tweets? The risk of normalizing suppressing speech is greater than the risk of terrorism.

I'd argue we should let them post what they want and monitor them as they freely associate with their cohorts and note the patterns/relationships. This seems like such an obvious answer that I can only assume that I'm either way off, or this is some type of marketing to engender some type of patriotism response among those not yet signed up or active on Twitter.

There have no doubt been scores of security analysts doing this for years, but I'd imagine that this can only go so deep, as I doubt they're openly scheming on Twitter.

It does however provide a window into some of their recruitment behavior, as these types of outlets are the easiest places to lure vulnerable or impressionable people into deeper, darker corners of their propaganda networks. But I have to imagine that if you were to shut off their ability to lure people there in the first place it would do more to fight them than watching and following them.

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#86
post #3

I'm more interested in why it took them this long, while they're perfectly fine suspending accounts that are politically opposing to their worldview. How are political dissenters more dangerous than actual terrorists?

The word "terrorism" is a PR word intended to marginalize whatever group it is applied to. As a tactic, terrorism describes the infliction of civilian casualties meant to create a disproportionate climate of fear. By this definition, drones used in warfare are a form of terrorism. In today's world we are not fighting wars in the traditional sense of defending ourselves against aggression. Since there is no obvious th…

terrorism describes the infliction of civilian casualties meant to create a disproportionate climate of fear. By this definition, drones used in warfare are a form of terrorism.

Let's address that point. First, that's a convenient definition that erases the distinction between State and non-State violence which is critical to many people's formulations of what is and isn't permissible.

E.g I wouldn't tolerate my neighbor trying to search my house, but I would step aside for a police officer with a warrant.

Secondly, drone warfare isn't conducted primarily to kill civilian targets. Sure, bystanders do die in the process but there's never been an account of a US drone strike that was motivated by the desire to instill fear in civilians by maximizing civilian causalities.

Terrorists seek to maximize damage. States don't, or at least subject to some constraint. Carpet bombing is terrible on its own merits, but it's not akin to using nuclear / biological weapons.

In today's world we are not fighting wars in the traditional sense of defending ourselves against aggression.

We absolutely are fighting aggression. The Pulse Nightclub? The Twin Towers? Jihadists routinely declare war on America and work towards killing Americans. We're not fighting state actors (with the exception of ISIS) hence the term "asymmetric warfare".

Meanwhile, the US has typically funded various militant groups that oppose the regime, and now those groups are no longer needed. Some decide to seek power in the newly existing power vacuum. They will be branded as terrorists arbitrarily to suit the needs of the US PR campaign.

They were terrorists when we supported them, now they're just terrorists that bother us. Al Queda was a terrorist group when it fought the Soviets, it just became a problem for America when America became the new enemy.

The word terrorism is used to characterize a person or a set of beliefs or an organization as unworthy of respect and unworthy of humane treatment.

You're correct. And it's an important part of mutual radicalization, look at how quickly the left adopted very right wing thoughts after charlotesville. People were calling for punishing the terrorist's family, starting watch lists, and the importance of preemptive self-defense against terrorists.

Yet in the US we fail to recognize our drone strikes as the same tactic as suicide bombings, while we create untold pain and suffering abroad.

They're not the same tactic. The U.S is duty-bound to protect its citizens and the U.S citizens exchange obedience for protection, drone strikes are a mechanism of protecting U.S citizens, the legitimacy of the State depends on the U.S defeating its enemies. Sure, there are less violent ways of accomplishing the goal but that's for the U.S citizens and U.S influencers to decide.

Both of our major political parties strongly support the endless war and the endless killing and destruction of the political adversaries abroad who dare to try to control their own destinies and the destinies of their region.

Hardly. The U.S goes out of its way to support self-rule so long as the people are committed to liberal democracies. Look at all the aid the US dishes out and all the favorable treatment it gives fellow democracies.

What the U.S can't tolerate (and must never tolerate) is the formation of States (like ISIS) that dream of genocide for Americans or American interests or the defeat of freedom and liberty.

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#87
post #19

I understand why Twitter might not want ISIS accounts on their service but from a national security standpoint, it seems better to have the communication happening on a U.S.-based service like Twitter than some darknet or crypto-centric app.

My guess is that the real comms already do happen outside of Twitter, and that Twitter is simply a recruitment platform/loudspeaker

Your guess would be 100% correct.

We built huge spy networks only to find out that the terrorists don't even use the internet for their plans. They use burner phones and other non-tech solutions (paper?! omgawdwtf.) because (surprise!) they're harder to track on a systematic level.

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You use twitter to radicalize and indoctrinate - not plan attacks. Attacks are typically planned alone and in solitude after someone has already been radicalized.

> alone and in solitude two-factor solitude.

That made me chuckle.

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, and this should be the retort to any curtailing of free speech in the name of safety. Its the same argument as allowing “the_donald” to exist on Reddit. You will not stop an ideology by denying them a platform. Better to debate them in an open forum, even if they are evil. The only way to counter bad ideas is with good ones.

There was a recent /r/science article that suggested the banning of coontown and fatpeoplehate resulted in less hate on the platform as a whole. Would you argue this hate moved to other avenues of the web? I'd bet some of it did, but some people just stopped being so hateful on the internet once their cesspool went away. https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/6zg6w6/reddits_ban...

It's conflation to compare coontown with the_donald. Go there right now. You won't find "kill the jews" posts. You won't find "kill the gays/black people" posts. You'll find a ton of supportive people with a particular worldview--and there's nothing wrong with that.

If you assume the people you disagree with are "insane" or disregard them as "full of hate" then you'll never understand why they think the way they do and the division in our world continues unabated.

It still blows my mind that people who support the currently elected president, are considered a hate group. If the other candidate had won, would we consider her subreddit a hate sub? Would we care what the losing party thought about her subreddit? We all know the answer to that: "No." I have never before seen an election where "only one candidate is considered a human being."

Strange times.

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, and this should be the retort to any curtailing of free speech in the name of safety. Its the same argument as allowing “the_donald” to exist on Reddit. You will not stop an ideology by denying them a platform. Better to debate them in an open forum, even if they are evil. The only way to counter bad ideas is with good ones.

Sure, just like you could convince McDonald's to go vegan with a few carefully worded arguments... ISIS doesn't use twitter to debate you. They use it strictly for outbound propaganda. Even if you could somehow convince those running ISIS accounts of the folly of their endeavours, these are likely to be a tiny fraction of ISIS' people. There are a few dozen social media people in their ranks, but the idea that the bu…

Again, exploding people with bombs and using trucks as bullets is already illegal. More to the point, it's important to not conflate extreme ideologies with specific groups which use those ideologies. ISIS uses Twitter to recruit people to ISIS. There are many violent extremist groups that aren't ISIS, and would love to see it's demise.
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