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From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

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Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#81

Post by zhengyi13 »

appleiigs wrote: post #41
lucozade wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To my mind, it's not completely unreasonable to argue that the constraints on the state do not necessarily have to be mirrored as constraints on individuals or companies/institutions. It seems to be similar to the freedom of speech debate regarding the Daily Stormer. The debate largely revolved around whether a company should be able to refuse their business because they found it objectionable even while conceding it…

She would be a net positive for your organization, however, that's a low hurdle. When there is a good amount of competition for hiring or admittance, it would be hard to justify hiring/admitting her when you can find someone with similar skills without the time in prison.

I find such justification easy.

Is the net social gain of hiring someone working towards or through rehabilitation greater than that of hiring someone who's not faced with that burden? In other words, am I helping reduce recidivism? I think so.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#82

Post by dzdt »

nxsynonym wrote: post #68
moneytalks wrote: post #60

Can't believe we're to the point of debating whether a private educational institution can base an admissions decision, in part, on a past murder conviction. This isn't about redemption or rehabilitation. No one is suggesting she's going to beat, starve, abandon and murder another 4-year-old. That's very unlikely. But, what we are suggesting is that a private institution should be able to consider a person's entire s…

>>But maybe the issue here is that the woman's punishment was much less than what most people would consider full justice, so they feel compelled to mete out slightly more to compensate. Peoples justice is not justice, it's revenge. You can't cherry pick the decisions of the justice system to fit your personal world views. You either believe in the ability of the justice system to impose the correct sentences, or you…

> It has nothing to do with her as a person and everything to do with a bad PR incident.

Yes. The rejection is not about further punishing Ms. Jones. It is about protecting Harvard from bad press.

Is it unreasonable that Harvard admissions be based in part on protecting its image in the publuc eye?

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#83

Post by Beltiras »

aaron695 wrote: post #80
Beltiras wrote: post #25

> Jones got pregnant at 14 after what she called non-consensual sex with a high-school senior. Why minimize? Sounds like rape.

She murdered a 4 year old child. Kept it secret for a period of time (two years). Hid the body and mislead police on it's location to confuse them. To this day it has not been found (One assumes because she is still keeping it hidden) Also her boyfriend (the high-school senior) has never been charged with rape (and had custody of the child until he was 3 so one assumes no allegations were made back then) But assuming…

You misunderstand me. I objected to the minimization of the rape. The "what she calls" language.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#84

Post by spaceseaman »

fhood wrote: post #56
throwaway287391 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... wow. I'm pretty shocked that a Harvard prof would admit to overturning someone's admission due in part to them being a racial minority, fearing the prospect of bad press from Fox News . Fox has really won the culture wars in a major way.

Why would Harvard actually care what Fox news thinks? Honest question.

What do you think most of their donors watch, practically exclusively? Gotta make sure Johnny's not going to one of those SJW / safe space / PC / ... colleges like Yale!

They're trying to avoid being part of Fox's whole anti-University arc this season.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#85

Post by rhizome »

dzdt wrote: post #82
nxsynonym wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>But maybe the issue here is that the woman's punishment was much less than what most people would consider full justice, so they feel compelled to mete out slightly more to compensate. Peoples justice is not justice, it's revenge. You can't cherry pick the decisions of the justice system to fit your personal world views. You either believe in the ability of the justice system to impose the correct sentences, or you…

> It has nothing to do with her as a person and everything to do with a bad PR incident. Yes. The rejection is not about further punishing Ms. Jones. It is about protecting Harvard from bad press. Is it unreasonable that Harvard admissions be based in part on protecting its image in the publuc eye?

Harvard's image isn't going to be compromised with an altruistic admission, they just don't want to stand up for rehabilitation.

Consider what that says about their integrity, their culture, and their goals as an institution.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#86

Post by dajohnson89 »

eisrep wrote: post #42

Unrelated to the story but I'm not too fond of taking over the scroll wheel for transitions. Sure, it's a cool effect here but it tricked me into thinking I had my Ctrl key pressed down somehow. It's not enough to make me leave but it is a bit disorienting, if not annoying.

That was ghastly. I spent a full minute closing and re-opening the tab and refreshing. Why anyone would thing onScrollDown is a nice event to capture for a zoom-in on a portrait like that is beyond me. It almost felt like an extremely annoying troll.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#87

Post by CossieRay »

wallace_f wrote: post #67
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time, I see why it was done. Should someone who happened to go to prison have limited prospects for the rest of their life? Should someone who happened to get arrested for drugs need to work hard labor for the rest of their life to survive?

There is nothing wrong with choosing to put chemicals in your body as long as you aren't hurting anybody else in the process. There is something horribly wrong with torture and murder of a 4 year old. How many good and decent people work hard labor most of their lives simply because they were born on the wrong side of some arbitrarily drawn border? Because they happen to be born into a world where their intellectual…

At what point will she simply be referred to as Michelle Jones as opposed to "this child murderer"? It's just not right to blatantly disregard all her twenty years of transformation

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#88

Post by mcguire »

"But the American studies professors said in their memo to administrators that “honest and full narration is an essential part of our enterprise,” and questioned whether Jones had met that standard in framing her past. In the personal statement, which was not required, she did not detail her involvement in the crime, but wrote that as a teenager she left Brandon at home alone, that he died, and that she has grieved for him deeply and daily since.

"[John] Stauffer emphasized in interviews that he and his departmental colleague, Dan Carpenter, were simply trying to ensure that Harvard did its due diligence about the candidacy."

The objections serm to be

1. She would have a hard time fitting into Harvard. Which is horseshit.

2. She would potentially embarrass Harvard. Which is to be expected of administrators, but seems out of place for faculty. I wonder what the spineless wankers think of the idea of tenure.

3. She was not penitent enough.

So, yeah. Good job Harvard.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#89

Post by falloutx »

eisrep wrote: post #42

Unrelated to the story but I'm not too fond of taking over the scroll wheel for transitions. Sure, it's a cool effect here but it tricked me into thinking I had my Ctrl key pressed down somehow. It's not enough to make me leave but it is a bit disorienting, if not annoying.

Oh God I just spend 5 mins trying to figure out why they are zooming a picture on scroll, I thought it was bug in the site.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#90

Post by killjoywashere »

_dps wrote: post #76
jackmott wrote: post #3

I don't understand why we let people out of prison if we aren't prepared to actually let them out of prison. I'm not really bleeding heart about this, I'd be fine with any murder of this sort meaning life in prison. What does not make sense is letting someone out and then not treating them as normal humans again. It only encourages people to revert to evil.

I think it's a stretch to call denial of entry to one of the most exclusive institutions of the world as "not treating them as normal humans". Reading between the lines from the text here (which I admit is speculation), I think there's substantial chance the admissions office feels there may be a shoe yet to drop (note that her son's body was never found... which based on the text of the article is likely to mean she…

Yeah, this seems to be as much about the Marshall Project drumming up awareness as anything. Submarine story of a social-justice kind. Whatever.
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