Not surprised to see James Snell prominently involved in this. I've had bad feelings about this since the io.js group joined the foundation. This is upsetting having followed (and used) the project for so long.
Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC
81–90 of 186 posts
Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC
#82Possibly off-topic: this is why GitHub, and GitLab, are both problematic platforms for online collaboration and community-building. There was once a list of grievances against this person here https://github.com/nodejs/TSC/issues/310 . That list is no longer present; it has been redacted, and a reason for that redaction has been posted. As someone who has zero context for this issue, this makes it very hard for me to…
Fortunately, somebody already took a snapshot and there's a way back: https://web.archive.org/web/20170821212745/https://github.co...
Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC
#83It was pretty hard to discern what happened. A lot of text and veiled insinuations. He is how far I got: It was this article tweeted by Rod: http://quillette.com/2017/07/18/neurodiversity-case-free-spe... Which was noticed by a member of the community: https://twitter.com/captainsafia/status/887782785221615618 Does that describe it? Maybe someone has a more clear summary One thing I noticed is that Node.js community…
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Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC
#84As a thought experiment imagine your manager asks you about the new node.js fork and whether you should switch to it. What would you say?
"Whatever you pay me to do."
Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes I get it that he may have stepped over other moderators, I can understand this. But how is that in violation with Code of Conduct, exactly? Just don't say it is "Other conduct which could reasonably be considered inappropriate in a professional setting". https://github.com/nodejs/TSC/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md
It's not a violation of the CoC, it undermines the CoC, which is generally inappropriate. It's basically broadcasting "Don't take the CoC seriously".
For this apology to undermine CoC, the moderated contributor (to whom the apology was made) must have violated CoC with his contribution (or whatever it was). Nobody links to that discussion anymore (probably better so).
Somehow it is quite hard to make an informed opinion in this case.
Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC
#86Too much drama and polemics. My god he spent a lot of time on that response -- like hours. If you are writing long emails dealing with responses to drama, you need to move on. Not because you are at fault but the whole situation is screwed up and not worth your time. This is not a win-win situation, but an everyone lose situation. It means you and others are in the muck. Once you get a bunch of these accusations and…
Was "Polemic" in your word of the day email or something? Anyways, Rod's character is being assassinated on the internet. Prospective employers could Google his name and all they'll see is one side of things, unless he attempts to defend himself. Additionally - the people wielding the pitchforks want him to just give up. At some point it's important for people to take a stand if they believe in their principles - or…
This is a polemic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polemic
It is not a means of trying to fix the issue, but rather a strong worded, accusatory, defensive blast at his critics by someone who believes they were wronged and others are at fault.
This is not a "how to get to yes" type response, but rather a response that just inflames a situation, and causes everyone to dig in.
There is going to be no winner going down this path, just losers all around and a lot of wasted energy and time.
Yuk.
Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC
#87Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC
#88One of the things that is useful about due process is the right to confront your accusers and cross examine them under oath. Without those rights, it is difficult, if not impossible, to see justice done.
Too often these important elements are missing, and Rod's statement "At no point have I been provided with an opportunity to answer to these complaints, correct the factual errors contained in them (see below), apologize and make amends where possible, or provide additional context that may further explain accusations against me." suggests that this lack of due process is present in this case as well.
When "Somebody complained about you in a serious way, but we can't say who, or the substance of the complaint." is the standard against which the process is measured, then it leaves itself open for abuse.
Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
Was "Polemic" in your word of the day email or something? Anyways, Rod's character is being assassinated on the internet. Prospective employers could Google his name and all they'll see is one side of things, unless he attempts to defend himself. Additionally - the people wielding the pitchforks want him to just give up. At some point it's important for people to take a stand if they believe in their principles - or…
This is a polemic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polemic It is not a means of trying to fix the issue, but rather a strong worded, accusatory, defensive blast at his critics by someone who believes they were wronged and others are at fault. This is not a "how to get to yes" type response, but rather a response that just inflames a situation, and causes everyone to dig in. There is going to be no winner going down thi…
Sounds like you'd already made up your mind about Rod, and weren't keen to hear the other side.
I, on the other hand, was curious to read his version of things so I'm glad he took the time to offer a detailed reply. After reading his "polemic" I felt he was rational, composed, and defended his actions and character rather well. I came to the conclusion that the pitchfork wielding folks were slinging a lot of unsubstantiated accusations that look a lot like moral authoritarianism.
My read was that he diffused a lot of possible indignation and inflammation with his word choice and tone. He was more conciliatory than I would have been in his position.
Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC
#90One of the things that is useful about due process is the right to confront your accusers and cross examine them under oath. Without those rights, it is difficult, if not impossible, to see justice done. Too often these important elements are missing, and Rod's statement "At no point have I been provided with an opportunity to answer to these complaints, correct the factual errors contained in them (see below), apolo…
Indeed. And while the fork proclaims to be more inclusive and provide safe-space, how am I as a developer to feel safe when I am subject to kangaroo-court processes?
And this is the reward for the effort of contributing time & code to a project? No, this is not inclusiveness.