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As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check

nytimes.com

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Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check

#81

Post by xor1 »

9erdelta wrote: post #43

I think traditional education, university, has a lot of flaws. But I also think one reason college/university has been around for a "long" time is that the system has merit. That merit in my mind being grading rigor, deadlines, classmates, and office hours. I haven't done a bootcamp, but I've done quite a few MOOC courses so my opinion is based on equating the two. This might not be a valid assumption. To me, MOOCs a…

Which courses are you doing at UCLA extension? I'm hoping to get into the GA Tech Master's eventually, but I know it's extremely competitive, especially as someone who doesn't have a CS degree.

Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check

#82

Post by sheepmullet »

stale2002 wrote: post #74
marmart wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hack Reactor is touted as really exclusive, but it's a 12 week boot camp. Does anyone seriously think that 3 months or even 6 months is enough to become any sort of passable? A well paced, self taught programmer can surely strive to a higher standard.

Passable for what? For a junior web developer position? Yes, absolutely. And it turns out that junior web developers make a shit ton of money in the bay area. A whole lot of companies do not need serious CS algorithms experts. A whole lot of companies merely need blue collar, CRUD web devs to build their CRUD angular react node web app. Being a crud web devoper is still a pretty good gig.

> And it turns out that junior web developers make a shit ton of money in the bay area.

Part of the problem is the high salary comes with the expectation of quick growth.

I think a lot of bootcamp graduates come up short.

Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check

#83

Post by Kiro »

asciimo wrote: post #27
mattnewton wrote: post #20

Sort of off topic, but in the second picture the whiteboard says "Ajacks" (and not ajax, for asynchronous JavaScript and xml). Makes me wonder how fast and loose they were playing with instructors, unless this is just a staged shot, or maybe a joke I didn't get. Not that you need to know what the acronym stands for (hell, no one I know uses the technique to get xml anymore anyways!), but it is weird to see the detail…

I think it's a joke. I doubt that the instruction is exclusively verbal; they must have seen "AJAX" somewhere along the line before whiteboarding Web applications. They're just having fun.

I doubt it.

Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check

#84

Post by Kiro »

darrinmn wrote: post #39
mattnewton wrote: post #20

Sort of off topic, but in the second picture the whiteboard says "Ajacks" (and not ajax, for asynchronous JavaScript and xml). Makes me wonder how fast and loose they were playing with instructors, unless this is just a staged shot, or maybe a joke I didn't get. Not that you need to know what the acronym stands for (hell, no one I know uses the technique to get xml anymore anyways!), but it is weird to see the detail…

Groups pick a team name for their projects, and they clearly picked ajacks as a play on "Ajax"... Possibly they also have 2 people named jack on the team.

That's really far-fetched since the box is describing an AJAX call.

Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check

#85

Post by colllectorof »

Alacart wrote: post #80

Who gives a shit where or how you learned to code. What a stupid and indirect way to filter candidates. Just show me what you've done. Send me repo links, production code, or even just the end result with some sort of proof that you actually built it. That's the best part about any craft - practicing or building something creates tangible results. If you don't already have a portfolio, get to work on that before you…

The sad reality of software engineering is that the wast majority of code everyone writes is not something they would want to show in an interview. Even if they legally could, which is rarely the case for commercially developed software.

Heck, even reasonably good software can produce a very negative impression. Utilitarian code can be seen as ugly or overly simplistic. Elegant conceptual stuff often runs the risk of grinding against biases and preconceptions of the particular reviewer.

Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check

#86

Post by sleepychu »

Alacart wrote: post #80

Who gives a shit where or how you learned to code. What a stupid and indirect way to filter candidates. Just show me what you've done. Send me repo links, production code, or even just the end result with some sort of proof that you actually built it. That's the best part about any craft - practicing or building something creates tangible results. If you don't already have a portfolio, get to work on that before you…

The article doesn't mention bias from employers, the problem is just delivering a course sustainably that gets people employed as devs.

Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check

#87

Post by roel_v »

mattnewton wrote: post #20

Sort of off topic, but in the second picture the whiteboard says "Ajacks" (and not ajax, for asynchronous JavaScript and xml). Makes me wonder how fast and loose they were playing with instructors, unless this is just a staged shot, or maybe a joke I didn't get. Not that you need to know what the acronym stands for (hell, no one I know uses the technique to get xml anymore anyways!), but it is weird to see the detail…

If I was making dummy applications to show basics of how browsers, networks, web servers and databases work (which it looks like the rest of the picture is doing), I find it wholly plausible that someone comes up with a play of words on fundamental concepts like that.

Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check

#88

Post by roel_v »

dwrench07 wrote: post #6

Current Data Science Student at Galvenize in Phoenix here. I came from a mix of technologies (approximate knowledge, but a master of none) before settling into the data sciences (Python ecosystem). Galvenize has been precisely the challenge I was looking for and so much more. I barely got by the interview process, but picked up a Veteran Scholarship worth half my $16,000 tuition along the way. Quit my job as a Salesf…

"There is a Physics PhD, undergrads in Mathematics and Physics, an acctuary Statistician from an insurance company, a Mom, and Biology grad, and a Veteran. An elclectic group I feel."

How can this work? I mean, I can understand those with a math background being there to learn the tooling and programming, but how can a mom (presumably with no prior education?) and a vet (also presumably without any other qualifications) keep up? Or, if they're teaching at the level of 'this is the slope in a linear equation', what's in it for the math guys? I just don't understand how this sort of thing works in real life.

Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check

#89

Post by latchkey »

dmitri1981 wrote: post #46
latchkey wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a 'team' effort. So, when you go look at the git history of the 'project', you can see who in the team actually contributed. Usually, it wasn't the person looking for a job. Then you wonder, ok, maybe shared computer... which makes it even harder to figure out. How is that a win for people who are paying tons of money to get an 'education'? I believe strongly that software engineering is an art form that requi…

If they submit projects they did not contribute to then that is an issue. Your other points however, I disagree with. - all code I write commercially will have dozens of contributors. It's a team sport and you need to be able to play well with others to succeed. - the best place to get experience is in the works place. That is why folks hire juniors. They will have massive gaps in their knowledge, but they will also…

I wasn't arguing against working with other people. LOL.

What I'm saying is that you should have clearly identifiable portions that you can point at as something you did. I also think that it takes extra curricular activity to truly master a subject. You can't just rely on others to show you everything. You have to experiment and learn on your own too.

Re: As Coding Boot Camps Close, the Field Faces a Reality Check

#90

Post by 9erdelta »

xor1 wrote: post #81
9erdelta wrote: post #43

I think traditional education, university, has a lot of flaws. But I also think one reason college/university has been around for a "long" time is that the system has merit. That merit in my mind being grading rigor, deadlines, classmates, and office hours. I haven't done a bootcamp, but I've done quite a few MOOC courses so my opinion is based on equating the two. This might not be a valid assumption. To me, MOOCs a…

Which courses are you doing at UCLA extension? I'm hoping to get into the GA Tech Master's eventually, but I know it's extremely competitive, especially as someone who doesn't have a CS degree.

Fundamentals of Software Development. If you are familiar with loops, if/else, simple functions that don't return anything or take any arguments, and using printf...I'd say give this class a pass. It is trivial really unless you are 100% unfamiliar with programming. Unfortunately, I didn't make that judgement until after the date where I could be refunded.
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