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Muesli – An alternative approach to Soylent

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Re: Muesli – An alternative approach to Soylent

#81

Post by aembleton »

fermuch wrote: post #45
opportune wrote: post #43

One thing I don't understand about soylent is how it can be so expensive and yet still so flawed. First, as a male I am concerned about isoflavones. I've read sources that go either way on how much it actually affects hormone levels, but since I suspect there is a lot more pressure from the agriculture / vegetarian community to make it seem safer than it is than from any other community to not, I lean towards it not…

I think the selling point of soylent is how easy it is to consume. You just drink it and done. Cleaning is as easy as washing your cup. That's an attractive point if you don't enjoy the ritual of eating, or simply want to spend the time doing something else. I agree it is too expensive for what it offers, though.

I've never tried Soylent, but I do have the UK equivalent - Huel [1]. This isn't as simple as drinking it, because you need to measure it out, add water and mix it for a minute or two. Then when it comes to cleaning, it isn't just a cup. There is also this grid like piece of plastic that helps to break up chunks of Huel but is hard to clean.

I like the idea; but in reality I'd rather jut have some toast if I want something quick. I know it's not as good for me but food is more than just getting calories and nutrients in. I get pleasure from eating a variety of textures and flavours.

1. https://huel.com/

Re: Muesli – An alternative approach to Soylent

#82

Post by allover »

L29Ah wrote: post #33
wdewind wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Controlling for calories and assuming you're not diabetic why does it matter what your source of carbohydrate is?

Even if you're not a diabetic, blood glucose spikes affect your mental performance like a weak stimulant, creating mild mood swings. Also, high amounts of high GI foods stimulate body fat production.

> Also, high amounts of high GI foods stimulate body fat production.

That idea, 'the insulin hypothesis', has not been proven. In fact there is now evidence that claim is false. (Paywalled study [1], summary in this article [2]).

[1] http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v71/n3/full/ejcn2016260a.... [2] https://www.vox.com/2016/7/6/12105660/do-low-carb-diets-work

Re: Muesli – An alternative approach to Soylent

#83

Post by djhworld »

aembleton wrote: post #81
fermuch wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the selling point of soylent is how easy it is to consume. You just drink it and done. Cleaning is as easy as washing your cup. That's an attractive point if you don't enjoy the ritual of eating, or simply want to spend the time doing something else. I agree it is too expensive for what it offers, though.

I've never tried Soylent, but I do have the UK equivalent - Huel [1]. This isn't as simple as drinking it, because you need to measure it out, add water and mix it for a minute or two. Then when it comes to cleaning, it isn't just a cup. There is also this grid like piece of plastic that helps to break up chunks of Huel but is hard to clean. I like the idea; but in reality I'd rather jut have some toast if I want som…

I have Huel for breakfast on work days only. I agree that the preparation and cleaning isn't that much different from say, having a bowl of cereal.

It works for me though, I wake up at 6:40, get a shower, iron some clothes, drink some Huel and am out the door at 7:20 to get the tube to go to work.

Other meals during the day are "normal", but it ticks the box for breakfast for me (quick to consume, fits in with my routine etc)

Re: Muesli – An alternative approach to Soylent

#84

Post by chillacy »

hueving wrote: post #65
smallnamespace wrote: post #49

Ugh -- Soylent and now this seems to represent a branch of scientism at its worse. Our bodies are complicated. Therefore, nutrition science is complicated, and very much a work in progress. Because people eat various things all their lives in an uncontrolled way, and because what you eat can have impacts on you 10, 20, or 50 years down the line, getting reliable nutritional data is extremely expensive and difficult .…

Evolution has only selected for diets that get you to reproduction. Those have very little overlap with what make you live well into your 80s+. Your appeal to nature holds as much weight as the soylent science when it comes down to it. The only constant in the human diet is change. What our ancestors ate even 500 years ago has very little overlap with what we even consider "traditional food" now.

I think there's an argument that a society which only makes it to reproduction and not much longer wouldn't last very long compared to one which has enough old people to help raise the kids (after all that is one of the theories as to why we even live to 80+ in the first place).

But yea, agreed that the types of foods we're eating have changed and continue to change, and thus far the driver of change is not our design, but rather market forces and consumer demand. I think something like soylent is a step in the right direction, even if it's risky in a way that any new science is risky (consider how we were using X-rays when we first discovered them for trying on shoes, before we knew the harm).

Re: Muesli – An alternative approach to Soylent

#85

Post by allover »

nopinsight wrote: post #34
wdewind wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Controlling for calories and assuming you're not diabetic why does it matter what your source of carbohydrate is?

Consuming much simple carbs often results in a faster rise in blood sugar and gradual insulin resistance which may lead to diabetes in the long run. Disclaimer: Not an expert, but here is a reference: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/carbohydrates/c...

I think that's too simplistic of a connecting of dots.

You're conflating with overeating. I don't believe healthy people, that stay within a healthy caloric range, that aren't predisposed to diabetes need to fear that the "rise in blood sugar" from simple carbs is going to lead to diabetes. And I'm not aware of any study that shows that or even could (it'd be incredibly hard to study), correct me if wrong.

Most people eat simple carbs every day and don't get diabetes. Athletes eat a lot of carbs and don't get diabetes.

Re: Muesli – An alternative approach to Soylent

#86

Post by allover »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #56
Analemma_ wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Mealsquares instead of Soylent, but the same idea applies: it doesn't replace all meals (I only have one per day, about 400 kcal worth), but just the ones where I don't have time to make something proper. In that sense, it's strictly an improvement over what I was eating before in that situation, which was usually either going out to eat or raiding my fridge of whatever junk was handy. If you use Soylent/Mealsq…

You know, if you're not trying to live off of soylent, you could just pound a protein shake for a fraction of the cost, and if you get a decent brand like optimum, it tastes better too.

You were downvoted, but this is true, and you can add ground oats for carbs if you wish.

(Can't vouch for that brand, but some of the powdered ones I've tried taste almost 'nice' with milk, not as nice as those supermarket pre-made ones, which are typically lower in protein, higher cal, and more expensive).

Re: Muesli – An alternative approach to Soylent

#87

Post by cropsieboss »

opportune wrote: post #43

One thing I don't understand about soylent is how it can be so expensive and yet still so flawed. First, as a male I am concerned about isoflavones. I've read sources that go either way on how much it actually affects hormone levels, but since I suspect there is a lot more pressure from the agriculture / vegetarian community to make it seem safer than it is than from any other community to not, I lean towards it not…

You are worried about phytoestrogen from plants but not worried about real estrogen from female mammals like cows, chickens and other's we eat?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224

Any kind of food demonizing is not good.

Re: Muesli – An alternative approach to Soylent

#88

Post by CuriouslyC »

allover wrote: post #78
CuriouslyC wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.) Carbs are a "hot" fuel, they have been shown to increase markers of oxidative stress and inflammation unless paired with phytonutrients as is typically the case in whole fruits and vegetables. This is because sugars are highly reactive in comparison with fats (particularly fructose). 2.) Highly quality carbs, such as in beans, barley, certain kinds of sweet potatoes, etc, are fermented by by your gut bacteria int…

Sources please. 'Inflammation' sets off my pseudo-science detector. And your first point is suggesting carbs are inherently bad 'because inflammation', which I just don't buy.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2859324/ https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jnme/2012/238056/ http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/33/5/991.short http://www.onlinejacc.org/content/48/4/677 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11745-007-3132-7

It will also help if you understand the chemistry of carbohydrates vs fats. Carbohydrates are inherently unstable and are much more likely to undergo spontaneous reactions than fats. This is because sugars are fringed with electrophyllic hydroxyl groups that will take part in dehydration reactions under physiological conditions. The result of this is advanced glycation end (AGE) products. The phytonutrients from plants seem to stabilize carbohydrates, which is probably part the reason the plant made them in the first place.

Carbohydrates aren't so much you body's preferred fuel, rather your body uses them first because letting them float around in circulation is harmful. This is particularly true of fructose, which the liver works very hard to prevent from entering general circulation.

Re: Muesli – An alternative approach to Soylent

#89

Post by CuriouslyC »

pointytrees wrote: post #64
CuriouslyC wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The glycemic index of a carbohydrate is a bad measure of its quality. A better measure is the degree to which it is fermented by bacteria in the intestines. Furthermore, there is research demonstrating that carbohydrates consumed without the phytonutrients that normally accompany them in whole food increase markers of oxidative stress and inflamation. Soylent might be better than a frozen pizza or fast food, but in t…

Hm, so for someone who eats frozen pizza and fast food on a daily basis (because of the convenience), would Soylent be a step up from that based on your comment?

Absolutely, but for just a tiny amount more work you can throw a bunch of lentils, frozen vegetables and meat in a slow cooker and get very close to an optimal diet.

Re: Muesli – An alternative approach to Soylent

#90

Post by majewsky »

aembleton wrote: post #81
fermuch wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the selling point of soylent is how easy it is to consume. You just drink it and done. Cleaning is as easy as washing your cup. That's an attractive point if you don't enjoy the ritual of eating, or simply want to spend the time doing something else. I agree it is too expensive for what it offers, though.

I've never tried Soylent, but I do have the UK equivalent - Huel [1]. This isn't as simple as drinking it, because you need to measure it out, add water and mix it for a minute or two. Then when it comes to cleaning, it isn't just a cup. There is also this grid like piece of plastic that helps to break up chunks of Huel but is hard to clean. I like the idea; but in reality I'd rather jut have some toast if I want som…

So you're using that plastic cup that comes with the first order? I always thought that cup's just a gimmick that people use when trying it out for the first few times [1], and if they like it, they would start preparing it with a blender.

[1] I still have to try it out. I can't quite get myself to order the smallest pack (a full week's supply) when I don't even know if I like it.

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