Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Investigating a ten-year-old estimate that “most social programmes don’t work”

80000hours.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–86 of 86 posts

Re: Investigating a ten-year-old estimate that “most social programmes don’t work”

#81

Post by kerkeslager »

mobilefriendly wrote: post #49
protomyth wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often wish we in the US would separate out long-term medicine from insurance. It really violates any rational for insurance to have a continuous, known cost be part of that. Also, it ups the insurance cost for everyone else. I wish we had a separate drug assistance program. Something like if you are making less than 200 or 300% poverty[1] the government will pay the full cost[2] and then just pro-rate it from there…

> wish we had a separate drug assistance program. Already exists. https://www.medicaid.gov/medicaid/prescription-drugs/index.h...

This isn't even a good faith argument. You're well aware that most people aren't eligible for medicaid.

Re: Investigating a ten-year-old estimate that “most social programmes don’t work”

#82

Post by ticviking »

intended wrote: post #76
ticviking wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And attracted every homeless person from 3 states around. The situation is so bad(both in terms of crime, and total population) that our state legislators are non-ironically talking about calling the national guard. To clear out camps where violence is becoming a problem. They already totally cut to the ground the shrubbery near one major camp because there were multiple assaults and a rape using those bushes as cove…

So basically the solution works - the local solution was fixed. The extra local issue - national homelessness - ended up suffocating the resources made to solve a much smaller program. So the solution seems to be to scale up this system in other cities and distribute the load. Again, assuming that people make a genuine effort to do this, as opposed to deciding "lets put a homeless housing center in the middle of nowh…

There are a few other complications, but you're right in general. And the rat park experiments tend to suggest that improving quality of life will reduce the temptation to use, so when I share this anecdote I'm not saying it's hopeless, I'm trying to find a route out of a local bad state.

What does one do about people who want to abuse drugs, and will not move into housing with a no-drug use clause attached? I recently helped a guy move out of his free housing because dope was more important to him than a roof over his head. Cleaned out his whole appt, and moved dropped him off a block from the camps I mentioned above.

I help feed this guy most weeks, and when he's sober he's really cool, but he's consciously choosing dope over a better life. I can't really force him into treatment, nor do I really think it would help unless he wanted them.

Re: Investigating a ten-year-old estimate that “most social programmes don’t work”

#83

Post by danharaj »

jimmaswell wrote: post #63
fatalogic wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would help some people but for most of the people I worked with money was more a symptom of their issues than a root cause. Lets say we have a child who is in 5th grade who reads at a 1st grade level. Most programs will say oh well he/she just needs more education so they create after school tutoring. That's great but there are so many things that can be hindering that child's ability to read. The real root may be…

>People aren't equations, you can't just input x and expect y. People react in mostly predictable ways to certain environments and situations. We're largely deterministic state machines. This kind of mystical thinking devalues the importance of a scientific, objective, data based approach to solving human problems. We aren't an exception to science.

Social dynamics are nonlinear and chaotic.

Re: Investigating a ten-year-old estimate that “most social programmes don’t work”

#84

Post by lcamacho84 »

schneems wrote: post #20

My S/O used to work at a company AuntBertha. They're a "search engine for social services" but they are a for-profit company (a B-Corp). Their biggest clients are hospitals and insurers. There are people called "frequent flyers" who come to the emergency room frequently and while they might only be 2% of clients they account for a huge share of costs. It's actually cheaper to hire social workers to provide these peop…

Why don't we increase taxes on the food that make us sick?

Re: Investigating a ten-year-old estimate that “most social programmes don’t work”

#85

Post by jimmaswell »

PeanutCurry wrote: post #72
jimmaswell wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People aren't equations, you can't just input x and expect y. People react in mostly predictable ways to certain environments and situations. We're largely deterministic state machines. This kind of mystical thinking devalues the importance of a scientific, objective, data based approach to solving human problems. We aren't an exception to science.

I'd like objective data that sustains your argument then. I think approaching problems, including social problems, as rationally as possible is important. I, similarly, believe that leveraging all available data is important. However, as far as social issues are concerned, American psychology and western psychology in general have shown themselves to be inadequate when addressing the universal set of humans and not t…

Admitting uncertainty or having probabilities isn't unscientific, but saying something is outside the realm of normal physics with no evidence is. Sure, psychology as we know it may be flawed, but retail, advertisers, etc. have a pretty good track record of systematically achieving results based on predictable human behaviors.

Re: Investigating a ten-year-old estimate that “most social programmes don’t work”

#86

Post by prawn »

shubb wrote: post #78
prawn wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm interested in seeing something as you've described too. All the little tasks that would make a community look really attractive, but that are ignored by councils. The sort of things you see industrious, elderly (often migrant) men do around their own gardens when they have endless spare time. Not back-breaking labour or anything especially unenjoyable, but tasks for people who have pride in having things look pre…

There is though a workforce of gardeners employed by local governments and individuals that you would be displacing. Perhaps from a good job onto the work programme.

No, this would be in addition to that. Often the employed gardeners have maintenance schedules meaning they have limited time in each area. I know there are countless areas near me, my commute and my office that would benefit from a bit of extra attention.
Post reply on HN