Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S • Hacker News Board

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#81

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 27, 2017, 12:46 AM UTC

eldavido wrote: post #58

malandrew wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "late stage capitalism" What does this even mean? Sounds like an activist buzzword. What evidence do we have that there are even "stages" to capitalism much less that we are in a later stage?

This is from Marx, who wrote The Communist Manifesto, among other things. I won't try to summarize, other than to say Marx treats this ("late capitalism") as a developed state of capitalism, sort of a mathematical limit/end state, where certain things are taken to be inevitable.

[deleted]

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#82

Post by CamelCaseName » Thu, Jul 27, 2017, 12:48 AM UTC

bogomipz wrote: post #67

>"This is a great day for American workers and manufacturers and everyone who believes in the concept and the label 'Made in the USA,' " said an ebullient President Donald Trump at the White House announcement." Why is this great for American manufacturers exactly? I'm guessing Trump doesn't know that Foxconn is a Taiwanese company? That sounds about right.

Foxconn has more factories in China than in any other country and their largest factory is in Shenzhen.

The implied "Made in USA" vs "Made in China" is fair.

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#83

Post by weberc2 » Thu, Jul 27, 2017, 12:48 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #37

malandrew wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "late stage capitalism" What does this even mean? Sounds like an activist buzzword. What evidence do we have that there are even "stages" to capitalism much less that we are in a later stage?

> What evidence do we have that there are even "stages" to capitalism Uh, the fact that history exists, and that within the set of historic systems which follow the basic system of property rights distinguishing capitalism [0], there's a clear sequence of different specific systems in history. > much less that we are in a later stage? The same is also evidence that the current stage is later than the previous ones, t…

Seems like a repackaging of the arguments against socialism. Arguments which are ridiculed here on HN "Just because most socialist states collapse into hotbeds of corruption doesn't mean it will happen here!"

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#84

Post by grizzles » Thu, Jul 27, 2017, 12:51 AM UTC

bbayles wrote: post #42

dshields1 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The subsidy is $1.5B for 13,000 jobs. The other half of the subsidy is for capital investment and construction expenses. It's still a huge number though.

The article states that: "At $3 billion for 13,000 jobs, the Wisconsin deal would cost $231,000 per job." By comparison, economists have estimated $125K/job-year to $202K/job-year from the 2009 stimulus (ARRA). [1] [1] https://files.stlouisfed.org/files/htdocs/publications/revie... , page 3

That should just about cover Trump's first term.

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#85

Post by eej71 » Thu, Jul 27, 2017, 12:51 AM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #41

ty_a wrote: post #11

$3 billion in subsidies for 3,000 jobs. http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2017/07/26/scott-walker-h...

At this price is Foxconn actually investing anything or is it all taxpayer financed?

I think it's a mistake to describe it as taxpayer financed. The text I see in the article is all about a reduced tax bill.

"$1.5 billion in state income tax credits for jobs created, up to $1.35 billion in credits for capital investment and up to $150 million in sales tax exemptions on construction materials"

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#86

Post by syshum » Thu, Jul 27, 2017, 12:54 AM UTC

weberc2 wrote: post #70

bbayles wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article states that: "At $3 billion for 13,000 jobs, the Wisconsin deal would cost $231,000 per job." By comparison, economists have estimated $125K/job-year to $202K/job-year from the 2009 stimulus (ARRA). [1] [1] https://files.stlouisfed.org/files/htdocs/publications/revie... , page 3

I'm confused about the comparison between cost per job and cost per job year. Presumably this (the Wisconsin deal) would be the better deal as the jobs presumably last more than one year?

Doubtful alot of the Recovery Act was for One Time Construction projects, like paving a road.

There were also alot of one off projects like sending people out to help with Energy Efficiency in homes.

There was not alot of long term stable jobs in there.

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#87

Post by eropple » Thu, Jul 27, 2017, 12:56 AM UTC

rfrank wrote: post #48

Nition wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every term is made up at some point but "late capitalism" itself isn't a new term[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism

It's not an idea that's worth taking seriously, like everything else from Marx.

I'm dying to hear you expound on exactly what Marx actually says and why what he says shouldn't be taken seriously. Cites and quotes while you're at it, please. (No third parties, please--he clearly doesn't need the help.)

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#88

Post by mediocrejoker » Thu, Jul 27, 2017, 1:03 AM UTC

eldavido wrote: post #58

malandrew wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "late stage capitalism" What does this even mean? Sounds like an activist buzzword. What evidence do we have that there are even "stages" to capitalism much less that we are in a later stage?

This is from Marx, who wrote The Communist Manifesto, among other things. I won't try to summarize, other than to say Marx treats this ("late capitalism") as a developed state of capitalism, sort of a mathematical limit/end state, where certain things are taken to be inevitable.

While I understand that the use of the term 'mathematical limit' is meant to imply a stable equilibrium, in this context it does make it sound as if there are rigorous mathematical proofs that these unmentioned things are indeed inevitable. I'm not sure if that's what you meant to convey.

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#89

Post by eej71 » Thu, Jul 27, 2017, 1:06 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #40

jjawssd wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tax incentives are not the same as cash payments

> Tax incentives are not the same as cash payments They are exactly equivalent to cash payments without the special tax treatment, so, yes, they are very much the same.

If you keep more of your money through a change in tax policy, you are suggesting that the government gave you money? I'd argue that you are keeping what was yours all along.

Being bled less isn't the same as receiving a blood donation.

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#90

Post by KekDemaga » Thu, Jul 27, 2017, 1:07 AM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #33

jjawssd wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tax incentives are not the same as cash payments

Forgoing revenue is the same as forgoing a payment.

Let's say you want to take a portion of my income in exchange for career services that has a cost of 1,000 dollars a year for you to provide.

You say "pay me 20% of your 100k job" netting you 19k, I refuse to pay that steep of a fee and counter with "take 10% or nothing" netting you 9k.

I don't believe its fair to say that you have lost 10k if you accept my terms as the alternative is receive nothing. You have increased your revenue by 9 thousand dollars as opposed to earning 0 dollars. The option you proposed is simply not on the table and can't really be considered.