81–90 of 147 posts
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This is the exact same argument to have collective bargaining rights and unions. I don't think the tech-crowd is a fan of unionization in general.
Tech crowd is doing pretty well as it is. Low skilled and unskilled workers are already kind of f#$ed, with more to come due to globalization, and (later) automation.
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Where are you getting this? >According to the Bundeskriminalamt, also known as the Federal Criminal Police Office or BKA, crimes by immigrants rose 79 percent in 2015. But at the same time, the number of refugees in the country rose more than fivefold — by 440 percent. In other words, the typical German was more likely to engage in crime than the average migrant. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/201…
> In other words, the typical German was more likely to engage in crime than the average migrant. That's not what your source says. It's not the typical German, it's "comparable groups among the current population", whatever they mean by that.
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This is a good point. Once welfare systems exist, you don't know if immigrants are coming because they believe in the host nation's cultural values or if it's just because they want free stuff, and have no intention of assimilation.
It is one of the terrible side effects of all welfare programs. If you have socialized medicine, suddently it makes sense to ban products and practices for public health (since it lowers costs). If you agree to split the bill with the friends, you end up having to make rules on what people should be able to order to make sure things dont go too out of whack.
Obamacare is basically the worst of both worlds.
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> but there is little besides conjecture and anecdotal evidence to support it. He had a strong reaction because he's tired of these kinds of lies being perpetuated by our media. Everybody knows mass immigration from problematic parts of the world brings a huge burden on the host population.
Was that true for america when it had the immigrant influx in the previous centuries?
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Tech crowd is doing pretty well as it is. Low skilled and unskilled workers are already kind of f#$ed, with more to come due to globalization, and (later) automation.
Enter raising taxes stage right. As long as productive and automation exists and can be taxed, we'll be fine.
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> but there is little besides conjecture and anecdotal evidence to support it. He had a strong reaction because he's tired of these kinds of lies being perpetuated by our media. Everybody knows mass immigration from problematic parts of the world brings a huge burden on the host population.
Was that true for america when it had the immigrant influx in the previous centuries?
>Was that true for america when it had the immigrant influx in the previous centuries?
Lets ask all the dead native Americans about that.
Any kind of immigration restriction is an act of oppression. Think of how insane a proposal to limit people moving from a state to another in the US would be, how many arguments would be concocted against that, but so many arguments in favour of international restrictions. I have no doubts that free movement would have drastic positive economic and social effects. What is truly incredible is how adamant people can be…
That seems quite naive, to the point of outright stupidity.
If I was a large nation state with a very large population, it would be very easy to take over another smaller nation by just migrating a huge population to that country. This was used by the USSR post-takeover in many of their satellite states.
Looking at state-to-state movement restrictions is silly because all of the said population is under the same federal jurisdiction, same constitution, and same supreme court system.
I can promise you that the Netherlands doesn't want 20 million far right fundamentalist christians moving there and influencing policy. San Francisco doesn't want a few million Wahhabi Saudi's saying that gays should be beheaded. Small Pacific islands don't want a few million Chinese showing up and claiming their area as new territory.
Free movement will have dramatic effects. Some may be positive, but you seem to steadfastly think it will not be manipulated in horrible, horrible ways by the nation states that already exist.
It's worth remembering that before the 20th century, the US had more or less completely open borders. And we turned out OK, didn't we?
I'm going to have to ask if this was a monumental failure of thinking on your part?
First there are some theories that huge numbers of native Americans died from disease leaving the US a very large empty land mass.
Second, the native Americans that were left got a real bad deal from European immigration.
Third, the US depended heavily on slave labor in the south, something that has left a terrible 170 legacy of racism on our country (so much so our crime demographics look nothing like western Europe's.
Lastly, because the US was a large and empty land mass for one reason or another, it look a long time to 'fill it up'.
Attempting to make any future assumptions based on past assumptions that are very different from now is not going to work out well at all.
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Not to mention the social welfare systems would collapse.
Milton friedman spoke 40 years ago of how people in america changed their views on immigration. In the 1800's and early 1900's, immigration was open and considered nowadays to be one of the great processes that got america to be what it is. Bring me the poor and the sick and all that. 60 years later, turns out immigrants are lazy welfarers. As MF says, the moment you put welfare, suddenly you end up wanting to restri…
Repelling 14th amendment would have had interesting consequences as well (like creating a self-reproducing 2nd class citizen population) so control of the borders seems to be the most rational and practical solution.
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Enter raising taxes stage right. As long as productive and automation exists and can be taxed, we'll be fine.
Enter automation moving to China, stage left.