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In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

nytimes.com

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Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#81

Post by PakG1 »

mahyarm wrote: post #25
thablackbull wrote: post #21

I think this is a good illustration of the different approach in how China and America approach the consumer economics space. In America, there is a very heavy reliance on "trickle down". We create a "best-in-class", "top-of-the-line" product that only the elite and wealthy can buy into. These people then set the tone of how it will develop in the future. The first mover also tries to do everything in their power to…

Android was released a couple years after the iphone and it has defined the low end market. From the USA. A big reason why QR codes caught on in China is because everything else was really bad. In america, credit cards were 'good enough' compared to what was in china, so QR codes didn't catch on that quickly. Also because it's a wealthier nation, the typical merchant could afford the hardware required for processing…

A big reason why QR codes caught on in China is because everything else was really bad. In america, credit cards were 'good enough' compared to what was in china, so QR codes didn't catch on that quickly. Also because it's a wealthier nation, the typical merchant could afford the hardware required for processing cards, but QR codes all you needed was a print off and the mobile phone you already had as a merchant, which made more sense for china at the time.

Having lived in China during the time these online payments were launching, I have a different view. China launched a new online banking innovation law a few years ago. I can't find any sources, but I remember the banks complaining that this would give online payment providers an unfair advantage or something like that. The main players today Alibaba (Alipay) and Tencent (WeChat) were attacked by the banks in a big public debate. Today, they're the leaders.

I think it's rather a classic case of disruption. The incumbent banks are afraid of destroying their high credit and debit card fees, so don't invest in alternative products for payment transactions. Meanwhile, political interests don't make it a priority to innovate in the banking arena. Whereas the Chinese government basically said to the banks screw your concerns, we think this is a good idea and want to do this. Hence, when you have payment innovation in the US, it's limited in scope (PayPal and Google Wallet on the Internet only) or has to build on top of existing payment transaction infrastructure (Square and Stripe edit: and Apple Pay).

I bet if not for lack of political will against the banks and other incumbent interests, the US could make a similar banking innovation law and Facebook, startups, and the like would get in on it really fast. There's nothing inherent about QR codes that make them less preferable than tapping credit cards. In fact, I prefer QR codes.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#82

Post by slackingoff2017 »

monocasa wrote: post #42
frozenport wrote: post #35

Fucking non-sense, American's strive to create products that are different. The Chinese stereotype is to copy those. The copies are often not cost equivalent won't perform the same function as the original. Further it is often done with the full intent of tricking people, for example knock off Apple stores, Italian clothing etc. In absolute terms the average Chinese person can't afford higher quality items.

That's exactly what was said about Germany in the 1880s, and Japanese goods in the 1960s. It's the normal progression of truly developing economies.

Ignoring all copyright law? We're not talking about stuff that is cheaper equivalents which I'm fine with. The problem with China is counterfeiting brands.

Say I make a charger and want people to think it's high quality. To do this, I spend 90% of effort on making it look exactly like an Apple charger. It even works, kind of, maybe once.

This is a straight up scam, and the kind of crap that people knock China for. And such behavior is pervasive with the Chinese govt largely looking the other way. I'm fine with China competing but their government needs to stop the rampant scams. It hurts the more successful Chinese brands just as much.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#84

Post by NamTaf »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #70
NamTaf wrote: post #52

Everyone in Australia just uses paypass/paywave contactless payment with their credit cards. I rarely carry any signifiant amount of crash for that reason. It's essentially the same as using your phone except you use your credit card and doesn't require a PIN or anything for signature is no longer allowed . Without having used WeChat's approach with QR code scanning, it doesn't seem that different for the end user in…

"Without having used WeChat's approach with QR code scanning, it doesn't seem that different for the end user in practice." The difference is that anyone can accept WeChat payments, no matter how small their transaction volume. I haven't been to Australia since 2002, so am a little out of touch. Are there small businesses like fruit stands? Do they take paypass/paywave? What about buskers?

That's a very valid point. Not everyone can become a payment recipient with this with the same barrier to entry. In that sense, it's definitely less flexible and I guess that's where FB and co. have tried to make inroads with cash transfer. I know Commonwealth Bank made an in-house system for doing instant and easy transfers from an app like that.

Regarding your question, anyone who previously took a CC via an EFTPOS terminal would now take paypass/paywave. It's not ubquituous amongst the standard sunday market/food truck retailers, but it's not uncommon. I went to a French food and wine festival a couple of weeks ago and the majority of them used EFTPOS, but they also not infrequently do the market circuit.

Essentially, anywhere that previously had EFTPOS now naturally has contactless, and as the critical mass of people who don't carry cash grows, more smaller retailers are pressured into getting EFTPOS. The terminals are handheld, battery powered and connected to the mobile network now so you don't even need electricity. Granted, I don't see a time when buskers end up get EFTPOS terminals.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#85

Post by Reagan45 »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #79
frozenport wrote: post #35

Fucking non-sense, American's strive to create products that are different. The Chinese stereotype is to copy those. The copies are often not cost equivalent won't perform the same function as the original. Further it is often done with the full intent of tricking people, for example knock off Apple stores, Italian clothing etc. In absolute terms the average Chinese person can't afford higher quality items.

You seem to be taking this personally.

I just got paid $6784 working off my laptop this month. And if you think that's cool, my divorced friend has twin toddlers and made over $9k her first month. It feels so good making so much money when other people have to work for so much less. This is what I do, ====http://bit.do/dnRs5

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#86

Post by keiwo »

NamTaf wrote: post #52

Everyone in Australia just uses paypass/paywave contactless payment with their credit cards. I rarely carry any signifiant amount of crash for that reason. It's essentially the same as using your phone except you use your credit card and doesn't require a PIN or anything for signature is no longer allowed . Without having used WeChat's approach with QR code scanning, it doesn't seem that different for the end user in…

I'd assume the fee for receiving funds through WeChat QR is significantly lower than the transaction fee for paypass in Australia, which might explain why so many stores have a minimum for card.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#87

Post by csydas »

nickrio wrote: post #54
mahyarm wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android was released a couple years after the iphone and it has defined the low end market. From the USA. A big reason why QR codes caught on in China is because everything else was really bad. In america, credit cards were 'good enough' compared to what was in china, so QR codes didn't catch on that quickly. Also because it's a wealthier nation, the typical merchant could afford the hardware required for processing…

I'm a Chinese & living China, I shopping almost only with credit cards and cash for privacy consideration. However, I don't think credit cards in China are as popular as it is in the USA. I could guess most Chinese people don't have any credit card. Chinese traditional culture encourages saving, not loaning. And taking small loans is exactly how credit cards works. So maybe that's why people here don't like credit ca…

Maybe the data doesn't back this, but as a US citizen I find that most of the time when people refer to credit cards they're meaning their Bank card, which often acts as whatever you define it as at the terminal or it has a default status for quick pay options.

There are many people that are happy to just pull out the credit card to buy beyond their means but a lot of the time people are using a card backed directly by their Bank account.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#88

Post by [deleted] »

thablackbull wrote: post #21

I think this is a good illustration of the different approach in how China and America approach the consumer economics space. In America, there is a very heavy reliance on "trickle down". We create a "best-in-class", "top-of-the-line" product that only the elite and wealthy can buy into. These people then set the tone of how it will develop in the future. The first mover also tries to do everything in their power to…

[deleted]
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