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Why Is NumPy Only Now Getting Funded?

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81–90 of 115 posts

Re: Why Is NumPy Only Now Getting Funded?

#81
post #68
post #65

Is the idea that "foundational work" (in any field) can be done without "huge sacrifices" widely accepted? It sounds a tad unrealistic to me, unsupported by history. It's as if people want to have it both ways: Create innovative SW, but also don't take risks or make sacrifices. Offer software "for free" (and belligerently oppose even something like GPL), but also get paid (preferably by the government, so the people…

Who said people want to do "foundational work"? The just want to write some specific software they enjoy writing together. The question rather is: after said software has been proven valuable and widely used by companies, and when there remain some hard and/or non-enjoyable parts to be done to complete it/enhance it (specific drivers, documentation, advanced features, etc), why don't any of the users donate some mone…

That's an easy one -- because they don't have to :-)

In some cases, "paying extra" without being asked to might even be compromising your fiduciary duties.

I feel the open source movement has spoilt its "user base" a little. There's very little expectation of reciprocity. Sometimes even outright hostility toward OSS modes that try work with reciprocity (check out the linked HN thread above).

This mindset might be hard to reverse at this point. As with all "communal sharing" experiments, the true crunch time comes as the economic reality sets in.

Re: Why Is NumPy Only Now Getting Funded?

#82

Each country have its own taxes to sustain fundamentals, same thing must apply in software industry. Software engineers might be paid +100k$ while developing over open source languages/frameworks or libraries. That's is not fair, it is like riding a starving horse. A French point of view (after all, France invented VAT...) would suggest to introduce a taxe on software engineers salaries (1% ?) and redistribute this f…

I find it stupid to offer something for free and then cry when someone does not pay you for it.

Re: Why Is NumPy Only Now Getting Funded?

#83
post #68
post #65

Is the idea that "foundational work" (in any field) can be done without "huge sacrifices" widely accepted? It sounds a tad unrealistic to me, unsupported by history. It's as if people want to have it both ways: Create innovative SW, but also don't take risks or make sacrifices. Offer software "for free" (and belligerently oppose even something like GPL), but also get paid (preferably by the government, so the people…

Who said people want to do "foundational work"? The just want to write some specific software they enjoy writing together. The question rather is: after said software has been proven valuable and widely used by companies, and when there remain some hard and/or non-enjoyable parts to be done to complete it/enhance it (specific drivers, documentation, advanced features, etc), why don't any of the users donate some mone…

Donating company money is really hard, especially if you're just some manager of some department, and double so if it's not to a registered charity. Much easier to actually buy something like a support contract or a license where you get a purchase order and a receipt from a registered organization. People at companies simply cannot just give company money to random people with paypal accounts even if they think it's the right thing do to.

Re: Why Is NumPy Only Now Getting Funded?

#84
post #79

Each country have its own taxes to sustain fundamentals, same thing must apply in software industry. Software engineers might be paid +100k$ while developing over open source languages/frameworks or libraries. That's is not fair, it is like riding a starving horse. A French point of view (after all, France invented VAT...) would suggest to introduce a taxe on software engineers salaries (1% ?) and redistribute this f…

How about instead of taxing the workers we tax the companies that profit from open source efforts.

How would you measure how much of the profits a company makes come from open source efforts?

Re: Why Is NumPy Only Now Getting Funded?

#85
post #84
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about instead of taxing the workers we tax the companies that profit from open source efforts.

How would you measure how much of the profits a company makes come from open source efforts?

You don't, you just use a fixed percentage of whatever business tax they pay to fund open source development.

Re: Why Is NumPy Only Now Getting Funded?

#86
post #85
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you measure how much of the profits a company makes come from open source efforts?

You don't, you just use a fixed percentage of whatever business tax they pay to fund open source development.

How are you going to separate out companies that profit from open source software, from those that don't? Would the fixed percentage be same for a company that is built 100% on open source software as it would for one where a handful of people in one department occasionally use VS Code to write some python scripts?

If you want to fund open source using tax money, then fund open source using tax money. Trying to implement a special Open Source Tax and apply it only to those that "profit from" open source seems both counterproductive and virtually impossible.

Re: Why Is NumPy Only Now Getting Funded?

#87
post #86
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't, you just use a fixed percentage of whatever business tax they pay to fund open source development.

How are you going to separate out companies that profit from open source software, from those that don't? Would the fixed percentage be same for a company that is built 100% on open source software as it would for one where a handful of people in one department occasionally use VS Code to write some python scripts? If you want to fund open source using tax money, then fund open source using tax money. Trying to imple…

I think everybody profits from open source, since a large part of the Internet runs on open source, so there is no big need to discriminate.

Re: Why Is NumPy Only Now Getting Funded?

#88
post #87
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you going to separate out companies that profit from open source software, from those that don't? Would the fixed percentage be same for a company that is built 100% on open source software as it would for one where a handful of people in one department occasionally use VS Code to write some python scripts? If you want to fund open source using tax money, then fund open source using tax money. Trying to imple…

I think everybody profits from open source, since a large part of the Internet runs on open source, so there is no big need to discriminate.

So why make a special separate tax that has to be calculated and administered? Just use the tax money you already collect to fund open source projects.

Re: Why Is NumPy Only Now Getting Funded?

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They seem more likely than others -- see the recent Homebrew author grousing about getting rejected by Google, only to land at Apple, for instance.

He left apple. He didn't fit in. There's an interview about it on a podcast

link please!

Re: Why Is NumPy Only Now Getting Funded?

#90
post #88
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think everybody profits from open source, since a large part of the Internet runs on open source, so there is no big need to discriminate.

So why make a special separate tax that has to be calculated and administered? Just use the tax money you already collect to fund open source projects.

If you want to spend more money you have to increase taxes. I don't mind whether we just increase an existing tax or create a new one.
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