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Polynesian people used a kind of binary number system 600 years ago (2013)

nature.com

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Re: Polynesian people used a kind of binary number system 600 years ago (2013)

#81

Post by 19eightyfour »

pilsetnieks wrote: post #78
chandler wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...but why did they do it like this? ...because people are smart. People have _always_ been smart, it's one of the defining attributes of humanity. It strikes me oddly (not specifically your comment, but the general color accompanying these kinds of articles)--there's a kind of ground assumption that by looking into the past, one sees nothing but a gradually descending IQ.

> looking into the past, one sees nothing but a gradually descending IQ Actually, it quite literally might be so: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect Though it's questionable as to how IQ is related to actual intelligence over time.

Agree with that too. Maybe IQ is out of date? Also, the huge effect that all these new technologies must be having is surely not going to be factored into that.

Re: Polynesian people used a kind of binary number system 600 years ago (2013)

#82

Post by userbinator »

chandler wrote: post #74
19eightyfour wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is weird, right? Where did the precise use of broken and unbroken lines, in all the combinations necessary to represent binary 0 to 63 originate? It's a compact representation to label 64 different things using 6 "sticks"...but why did they do it like this? Were they aware of binary numbers?

> ...but why did they do it like this? ...because people are smart. People have _always_ been smart, it's one of the defining attributes of humanity. It strikes me oddly (not specifically your comment, but the general color accompanying these kinds of articles)--there's a kind of ground assumption that by looking into the past, one sees nothing but a gradually descending IQ.

I think the parent was referring to the fact that the numbering does not resemble any modern definition of binary --- there are 64 ways to arrange 6 2-stated things, but the I Ching numbering doesn't have any clear 32-16-8-4-2-1 (or other set of) weights to each "bit".

Re: Polynesian people used a kind of binary number system 600 years ago (2013)

#85

Post by iamcurious »

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #59

"Polynesian people used binary numbers 600 years ago" Disgrace to Nature for click bait. The number system might be clever but as described is not binary numbers. Especially the claim in the introduction "Binary arithmetic, the basis of all virtually digital computation today, is usually said to have been invented at the start of the eighteenth century by the German mathematician Gottfried Leibniz." implying Leibnitz…

>implying Leibniz didn't invent binary

Humanity is really old. At most, we can say that Leibniz was the last to invent it.

Re: Polynesian people used a kind of binary number system 600 years ago (2013)

#86

Post by jamesrcole »

chandler wrote: post #74
19eightyfour wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is weird, right? Where did the precise use of broken and unbroken lines, in all the combinations necessary to represent binary 0 to 63 originate? It's a compact representation to label 64 different things using 6 "sticks"...but why did they do it like this? Were they aware of binary numbers?

> ...but why did they do it like this? ...because people are smart. People have _always_ been smart, it's one of the defining attributes of humanity. It strikes me oddly (not specifically your comment, but the general color accompanying these kinds of articles)--there's a kind of ground assumption that by looking into the past, one sees nothing but a gradually descending IQ.

> people are smart. People have _always_ been smart

I don't disagree, but I think there's more to it than just that.

Our raw mental capabilities may have always been the same, but how smart we are also depends on our learning. Learning gives us extra leverage. If you have two smart people and one of them was trapped by themselves all their life on a desert island and the other learnt a lot about (say) maths and science, then the latter person could in practical terms have greater intellectual capabilities.

Over the centuries we've made great gains in mathematical tools, scientific knowledge, in democratizing education and in disseminating knowledge. And this means over the centuries we've (as a species) obtained more leverage that we can apply to our raw mental capabilities, giving us (overall) greater intellectual capabilities.

Re: Polynesian people used a kind of binary number system 600 years ago (2013)

#87

Post by jamesrcole »

19eightyfour wrote: post #80
chandler wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...but why did they do it like this? ...because people are smart. People have _always_ been smart, it's one of the defining attributes of humanity. It strikes me oddly (not specifically your comment, but the general color accompanying these kinds of articles)--there's a kind of ground assumption that by looking into the past, one sees nothing but a gradually descending IQ.

I agree. People are also arrogant. We like to look back and think "how quaint" and we are better than them. It's humbling to think that we actually weren't. But it's probably not very adaptive to think that way. Since, believing we are better now, by falsely diminishing the whatever metric of the past, probably helps us keep going forward to create the bright future. Hopefully without repeating the mistakes of the pa…

I think that it's fair to say that, in the past, people were (overall) a lot more ignorant about the character of the world and the universe, and that this led them to (overall) believe a lot more incorrect things.

This is not to beat our chests in a "we're better" kind of fashion, but just to acknowledge that we have the benefits of the knowledge that people who came before us built.

Re: Polynesian people used a kind of binary number system 600 years ago (2013)

#88

Post by netcan »

The Polynesian history of the (european) middle ages keeps getting more interesting and mysterious.

Evidence for polynesian contact with the Americas is mounting. Regardless, the medieval coonization of all the pacific islands is evidence of seamanship and navigation skills European mariners didn't achieve until well into the age of sail. European sailing was much more trade/cargo oriented & we know a lot less about "pre-contact" polynesian maritime cultre so it's hard to do put the technologies side-by-side. That said, it looks the polynesian ability to aim for and land on small remote islands circa 300CE was not surpassed by any other culture until the 18th century.

Then there's the strange case of Easter Island with it's giant stone statues. Giant stone statues & "how-the-f%£$-did-they-do-this" megalithic monuments have existed for a long time (EG the sphinx), but these are usually produced by populous civic cultures. "High civilization" to use an out of date term. For a tiny island to produce this kind of an artistic culture without obvious predecessors or descendants is strange.

As always in prehistory (in the literal, "before written records" sense), what we know is very little. But, it wouldn't be hard for me to believe that surprising numerical or mathematical systems existed there. It's a culture that has surprised us to the point of disbelief several times.

Re: Polynesian people used a kind of binary number system 600 years ago (2013)

#89

Post by contingencies »

erkose wrote: post #56

Binary numbers have been in use since the balance scale was developed.

This is not a bad point really. But taking that perspective, binary logic has existed since all forms of classification, ie. any form of recognition whatsoever, which all babies achieve innately (what is pain/hunger/warm/wet, who is mum, is that a voice I hear, etc.) In short, all structured thought requires binary logic, because otherwise classification wouldn't work, and thus neither communication, memory, etc.

Full disclosure: I had a revelatory acid trip on this subject when a research mathematician first explained to me set theory as essentially a derivative matrix resulting from a boolean test.... the world as we perceive it is merely sets! This explains children learning! Mind. Blown.

Bonus anecdote: If you like admiring early human achievements that have been unfairly obscured from popular history, check out the Polynesian crab claw sails. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_claw_sail#Performance

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