Earlier quoted context omitted.
So if I go crazy armed with military grade encryption, how many school kids can I kill before the cops get me? Sorry, your argument is bullshit.
If you encrypt something, isn't it because you're trying to hide child molestation and sexual exploitation footage? "Think of the children" is one of the most powerful cards there is, and it will be played in full force by governments, only less elegantly than you just did.
How the Australian government plans to access encrypted messages
81–90 of 107 posts
Re: How the Australian government plans to access encrypted messages
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
You and your fellow citizens are incapable of organizing against your government in the event that it becomes dangerous to its constituents. Congratulations! I am glad to live in a country whose founders had the foresight that allowing a government to leverage weaponry / violence against its citizens without giving its citizens the same leverage was just a bad, bad idea. That is the real reason for the 2nd amendment,…
Except that this time the difference between a regular army and a militia would be far beyond just the color of their coat. Having weapons at home can barely counter law enforcement, let alone a professional military force. This time there's more technology supporting each area of warfare: logistics, reconnaissance, equipment, vehicles... A militia, however organized, has everything to lose against an regular army in…
You're exactly right, "Your only chance to win would be insurgency or guerrilla warfare." but I'll add "with guns."
Re: How the Australian government plans to access encrypted messages
#83freedom-loving internet users will soon know how gun owners feel. every single bogus argument for gun control or "assault weapons" bans can, and will be, used against internet speech freedom and information privacy, now that the western political establishment has taken it upon themselves to strip you of your free speech rights after seeing how trivial it was stripping you of your guns, and how much enthusiasm their…
Wow what a total straw man. Firstly this is an article about Australia not the U.S. But I will get into why Australia is particularly relevant in your poor choice of straw man in a second.
Firstly, "Gun control" is not about wholesale elimination of gun ownerships but rather rather having some policy that permits its' ownership while still accounting for public safety. Your sentiment is typical FUD propaganda employed by lobbying groups like the NRA in the US - "they're coming to take your guns!" By the way the NRA is among the most powerful lobbying groups in the US[1], there is no such encryption/privacy lobby.
The central talking points in "Gun Control" are enforcing some common sense provisions like "back ground checks" to prevent mentally people unstable from owning guns. Or restricting civilian ownership of military-style assault rifles that don't have a compelling civilian use case in either hunting or self defense.
Australia has implemented both of these common sense provisions mentioned above - forbidding semi-automatic assault rifles and mandating back ground checks and waiting periods for gun purchases. And guess what? Australia doesn't the mass shootings that are so common they start to overlap each other's news cycles. There is no epidemic city like Chicago where 762 people in a single year were killed by guns[2] And plenty of Australians own guns. Australia implemented these after the Port Arthur Massacre in 1996. And not only does Australia have no shortage of people that own guns but gun ownership is on the rise [3]. You know what isn't on the rise though? Mass shootings of innocent civilians these went from 11 per year to zero after changes in legislation proposed in the wake of the Port Arthur Massacre[3].
[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/magazine/inside-the-power-...
[2] http://time.com/4635049/chicago-murder-rate-homicides/
[3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/05/guns-...
Re: How the Australian government plans to access encrypted messages
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you don't want guns, maybe you should repeal the second amendment instead of ignoring it. Same goes for the first.
This made me laugh: as a non-American I am so happy that my country is civilized enough to not to have a "second amendment".
And your comment might make others laugh for its ignorance.
Perhaps you should read up a bit on US history, the circumstances of its' founding and the "actual" origins of the second amendment?
It's not some provision that was proposed by a bunch of "uncivilized" gun nuts:
http://www.revolutionary-war-and-beyond.com/2nd-amendment.ht...
Out of curiosity can you share what is your country?
Re: How the Australian government plans to access encrypted messages
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
The only purpose of a gun - a handgun in particular - is to wound and kill people, something civilians have no business doing. That's not the case with encryption.
I've used a handgun to signal for help, to find lost people in the woods in Alaska, to hunt, to scare away bears, and for fun. And on a few occasions, I've been very glad to have a handgun with me stateside, because I came quite close to needing to use it to protect myself. Fortunately I was able to negotiate those situations without using force. Are you a pacifist, incidentally? Can you really think of no valid reas…
Yes, if you're hunting, it's a tool.
Re: How the Australian government plans to access encrypted messages
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
The only purpose of a gun - a handgun in particular - is to wound and kill people, something civilians have no business doing. That's not the case with encryption.
I've used a handgun to signal for help, to find lost people in the woods in Alaska, to hunt, to scare away bears, and for fun. And on a few occasions, I've been very glad to have a handgun with me stateside, because I came quite close to needing to use it to protect myself. Fortunately I was able to negotiate those situations without using force. Are you a pacifist, incidentally? Can you really think of no valid reas…
Re: How the Australian government plans to access encrypted messages
#87Wikipedia says the United States Capitol/The White House was called "The Faculty of Law". The Pentagon was dubbed "The Faculty of Fine Arts". Atta codenamed the World Trade Center "The Faculty of Town Planning". I remember reading they had also use terms such as "birthday cake" and "candles".
I don't know if ASIO (and the US agencies pushing this agenda) are lazy or if they have some different agenda. Clearly this isn't a make-or-break issue in policing.
Re: How the Australian government plans to access encrypted messages
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
What nonsense. It's obvious what the parent comment meant. Law abiding gun owners by definition do not kill innocent children, just like law abiding people do not use encryption nefariously. Encryption and guns are both tools, with nothing intrinsically good or evil about them. Yet law abiding gun owners were punished and had their rights stripped throughout most of the world on the pretense that it would somehow hel…
> Encryption and guns are both tools Fireworks are tools, but need to be regulated because are dangerous. Sulfuric acid is a tool, but need to be regulated because is dangerous. Plutonium is a tool, but needs to be regulated because is dangerous. Opioids are tools, but need to be regulated because are dangerous. Cars are tools, but it's use needs to be regulated because are dangerous. I find it amazing that I need to…
All things in your list have an inherent physical danger. Neither encryption nor cryptography are themselves dangerous, they're a means of encoding some other thing which may or may not be dangerous into something whose danger cannot be determined.
Imperfect analogy, but crypto is more like a safe than anything you list. An ensuing argument is, we need to regulate (crypto) safes not because they are themselves dangerous, but because their contents might be.
The means of encryption-decryption, code, is considered free speech (Bernstein vs U.S. 9th Circuit, and Junger v Daley, 6th Circuit). Thus far crypto is itself protect, but the usage of crypto is an open question.
With a real safe, police with probable cause can get a warrant, and forcibly gain access to the safe and see the contents. This isn't possible with crypto if the key owner refuses to cooperate, and why there's the ensuing problem of sanctioning the person for contempt of court when ordering access and they don't cooperate.
The dispute has nothing to do with analogies though, it has to do with a power transfer. Crypto permits some transfer of power from the sovereign to the individual. And that has altered the social contract. It's done. And now after the fact we're trying to sort out the consequences of that power transfer, and whether or not the sovereign gets to reign it back in, and how. And that's unanswered.
Re: How the Australian government plans to access encrypted messages
#89The story title mentions Australia but this is relevant to all the 5eye nations, as they're obviously pre-briefing the media on what the agenda will be and this is the first time that we're getting detail on what they'll be proposing (the UK proposals were vague) What they seem to be talking around is implementing an app-level CALEA-like capability. What I think how they think it would work: companies would be made t…
You don't really need much for targeted surveillance, right ? One only needs to tap into the distributor and push a specific trojan update.
Even without that Telegram and Signal already have vulnerabilities by tying key-pairs to phone numbers via OTPs. GSM is broken, ergo so are these. If these agencies wanted to do targeted surveillance there is very little in their way IMO.
The argument presented in the article is a specious one in that they use the premise of targeted surveillance for instituting the structures for mass on-demand targeting.
This is a very slippery slope, and as usual the morons that form our 'forth pillar' have let us down badly.
Re: How the Australian government plans to access encrypted messages
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Further to this, the reality is politicians who want to undermine information security don't give a damn about protecting their citizens/subjects. That's just the excuse to make the poison pill more palatable. What this is about, and what gun control is about, is right there in the name: control . It's about having a monopoly on security and force, so the populace will be less independent and easier to manage. At the…
>I find it shocking how many people who clamor for electronic freedom and an uninterfered-with internet are perfectly happy to cede their rights and independence in other areas to the government without so much as a grumble... This is absolutely the most shocking thing I have come to notice recently, which just shows that these people have reasons spoon fed to them from somewhere, (knowingly or unknowingly) and have…