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Trump announces plans to privatize US air traffic control system

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Re: Trump announces plans to privatize US air traffic control system

#81
I caught a snippet of his comments, complaining about managing "thousands of flights" using "slips of paper".

It's been a few years, but I recall reading at least one article wherein was described how those slips of paper actually made a lot of sense. (It may have been one of the articles that made the rounds, describing the surprising endurance and resilience of paper-based work.)

The slips of paper supported both regular and immediate, ad hoc workflows as they were needed. Also, paper is immune to systems failures. Your electronic board goes down -- you still have all your flights at hand. Start spacing them and shoving incoming traffic into wider holding patterns.

Re: Trump announces plans to privatize US air traffic control system

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a helpful article: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/air-traffic-control-tech-...

The article's argument is that the current U.S. ATC system is understaffed and has antiquated equipment. It doesn't actually help explain what privatization would accomplish.

You get fired for complaining? (I'm only half in jest, here.)

Re: Trump announces plans to privatize US air traffic control system

#83
post #8

Why . I don't get this at all. Why privatize? What is the benefit? All I see this doing is decreasing safety.

Union-busting and multiple someones get to make a lot of money. All of them are likely funneling some of said future money into the pockets of those pushing for this privatization as well.

Re: Trump announces plans to privatize US air traffic control system

#84
post #25

A monolithic private institution doesn't inspire confidence in me any more than a monolithic public one. I don't see the purpose in switching one for the other, and would probably rather see it run by the government. If it was replacing the current system with one where you had 12 different companies competing with one another, maybe so but I don't really see the benefit in what I'm reading. But I don't feel strongly…

Basically its the technological infrastructure.

So I work for a state mandated company thats an independent group, we actually set competitive markets and openly monitor but not as a government entity, but we are subject to follow state compliance rules as in, no employees who monitor the markets we set, are allowed to invest and profit in those companies in the stock market or have children or be married to people who do etc.

Anyways, in most cases though, because our security is high, we contract software much like the federal government does, and its horrific.

most of the issues you see with cascading flight cancellations, air traffic control issues, gas control problems etc, not being able to keep track of regulations well enough to streamline and lower barrier for new companies etc...is due to horrible..horrible software.

Privatizing and allowing companies to come in and truly compete and new software to come in takes away the 10million dollar ten year government contract software companies who do as little as possible and charge $200k for a new feature that should have been moldularized in the core functionality in the first place.

Want an API? How about 85 pages of doucmentation that took 150 meetings to put together, none by the actual software engineers...

This crap can't continue in large scale infrastructure where competition needs to come in and rescue the crippling energy and transportation issues that burden the people with horrible services and no other choices.

One you step outside of silicon valley, or Seattle or the tech scene in NY, the world is a scary place, and there is alot of low hanging fruit to be had for software for the betterment of everyone.

Do you know how to write a for loop? ok good, you could probably do better...

I'm not joking.

Re: Trump announces plans to privatize US air traffic control system

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The New York metropolitan area is the single largest aviation market in the United States. Last year, there were nearly 33 million domestic origin and destination passengers that came to and from the three major New York airports (LaGuardia, Kennedy and Newark). Nearly 60% of the total delays endured by these passengers are a result of today’s inefficient air traffic control, among the highest in the nation." http:/…

I recommend you explain what benefit a transfer to private administration would offer, because the article doesn't actually make any statement about what would improve. According to the article, which does not cite any study or even interview a single official or anyone from the airlines, there are two obstacles posed by the current "inefficient" system: 1) Antiquated technology, and 2) insufficient staffing levels.…

Sure, let me help explain the benefit of moving away from privatised government style external government contracting for software.

First government style contracting in high security scenarios lends itself to 10-20year contracts, no lie, anywhere from 10mil to 100mil a piece. The worst part is, the companies building the software companies are not software companies, they are dinosauric companies slowly dying.

Basically its the technological infrastructure.

So I work for a state mandated company thats an independent group, we actually set competitive markets and openly monitor but not as a government entity, but we are subject to follow state compliance rules as in, no employees who monitor the markets we set, are allowed to invest and profit in those companies in the stock market or have children or be married to people who do etc.

Anyways, in most cases though, because our security is high, we contract software much like the federal government does, and its horrific.

most of the issues you see with cascading flight cancellations, air traffic control issues, gas control problems etc, not being able to keep track of regulations well enough to streamline and lower barrier for new companies etc...is due to horrible..horrible software.

Privatizing and allowing companies to come in and truly compete and new software to come in takes away the 10million dollar ten year government contract software companies who do as little as possible and charge $200k for a new feature that should have been moldularized in the core functionality in the first place.

Want an API? How about 85 pages of doucmentation that took 150 meetings to put together, none by the actual software engineers...

This crap can't continue in large scale infrastructure where competition needs to come in and rescue the crippling energy and transportation issues that burden the people with horrible services and no other choices.

Re: Trump announces plans to privatize US air traffic control system

#86
post #43
post #25

A monolithic private institution doesn't inspire confidence in me any more than a monolithic public one. I don't see the purpose in switching one for the other, and would probably rather see it run by the government. If it was replacing the current system with one where you had 12 different companies competing with one another, maybe so but I don't really see the benefit in what I'm reading. But I don't feel strongly…

> A monolithic private institution doesn't inspire confidence in me any more than a monolithic public one. I don't see the purpose in switching one for the other, and would probably rather see it run by the government. Indeed; this is why almost all "let's privatize X " initiatives are ultimately pointless (or perhaps even counterproductive). They merely shift the monopoly-holder from public-sector to private-sector,…

If even one company came in and wrote software with

1. an API written by a software engineer

2. code written post 1970s that knew how to write a for loop and allocate memory

Then we would all be better off....I promise...

Its hard for me to...describe how bad it is...

Re: Trump announces plans to privatize US air traffic control system

#87
post #74
post #25

A monolithic private institution doesn't inspire confidence in me any more than a monolithic public one. I don't see the purpose in switching one for the other, and would probably rather see it run by the government. If it was replacing the current system with one where you had 12 different companies competing with one another, maybe so but I don't really see the benefit in what I'm reading. But I don't feel strongly…

What do you see these companies competing for?

Software government contracts from 10million- to around 100-500million a piece per state in which they are utilized in.

Re: Trump announces plans to privatize US air traffic control system

#88

My guess is that he has some personal vendetta against them for something that happened causing him to be delayed 5 minutes on his private jet.

The personal vendetta, while probably true on some level, seems too easy of an answer. This is one of many privatization initiatives this administration is going to take. The focus initially will be to find government run agencies that can be profitable in the private sector. Think in terms of toll roads/bridges for infrastructure, air traffic control and student loans to name a few. Whether or not if privatization i…

The article said this would be a non-profit company... but then again this is the US and look at all the non-profit multi millionaire preachers. Or the non-profit Goodwill with exorbitant salaries for execs.

Re: Trump announces plans to privatize US air traffic control system

#89
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A monolithic private institution doesn't inspire confidence in me any more than a monolithic public one. I don't see the purpose in switching one for the other, and would probably rather see it run by the government. Indeed; this is why almost all "let's privatize X " initiatives are ultimately pointless (or perhaps even counterproductive). They merely shift the monopoly-holder from public-sector to private-sector,…

If even one company came in and wrote software with 1. an API written by a software engineer 2. code written post 1970s that knew how to write a for loop and allocate memory Then we would all be better off....I promise... Its hard for me to...describe how bad it is...

Can you clarify this a little? Have you seen or worked with ATC code? I can believe some of your other comments about poor API specs, old code, aging infrastructure, etc., but I'm curious about your loop and allocation comments. My understanding is mission-critical software often has very strict formal verifications and bounds checking processes it goes through, and one of the techniques in those conditions involves loop unrolling. The absence of loops doesn't (always) mean bad software if it's designed to save lives. Just wanting to understand this particular complaint.

Re: Trump announces plans to privatize US air traffic control system

#90
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some circumstances > the private sector's legendary efficiency advantage is in fact: the private sector's _mythical_ efficiency advantage

Right; my point is that your "some" circumstances are precisely those under which there is no competitive pressure.

(Which is to say, the private sector very much does have an efficiency advantage when there is a competitive market. Because only then is everyone in that market personally motivated, by the "vice" of greed, to be virtuously efficient. The only exception is what some people call a "monopoly par excellence"; a firm without competitors which nevertheless acts as though it has them.)
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