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Proposed “Internet Freedom Act” permanently guts net neutrality authority

arstechnica.com

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Re: Proposed “Internet Freedom Act” permanently guts net neutrality authority

#81

Post by unclesaamm »

mikehollinger wrote: post #79

It's hard for me to empathize (in the literal sense of the word) with someone who dislikes net neutrality. What're the reasons / justifications for why the current laws and rules are wrong or insufficient?

The purporse of anti-net neutrality advocates is basically to make the web less free so their clients (large telcoms) can capture more profits.

I think big money realized fairly late in the game that the Internet's decentralized structure makes it difficult to perform rent-seeking, so any legislation that tends to centralize the Internet is viewed as a pro by these people.

In other words, it's the same effect you see in every other field -- special interest lobbyists for large corporations want to rewrite the rules to suit them, at the expense of ordinary people's privacy and a democratic Internet

Re: Proposed “Internet Freedom Act” permanently guts net neutrality authority

#83

Post by [deleted] »

matt4077 wrote: post #5

It is bewildering how different these Senators' concepts of reality must be from mine to consider this a good idea. I wouldn't even consider it debatable... There's a reason, after all, that ISPs around the world have largely shied back from such practices in the past. Part of the problem may be that those most hurt don't even exist, yet. Depending on how blatantly ISPs would exploit their position as gatekeeper of t…

[deleted]

Re: Proposed “Internet Freedom Act” permanently guts net neutrality authority

#85

Post by forgotmysn »

tn135 wrote: post #75
epistasis wrote: post #2

This is why politics is important, even in tech. We need some grownups to represent us. If you spend ~$50/month on home internet access, and $50/month on cell phone access, that's $1200/year for internet connectivity. How much do you spend on hardware per year? Do you buy a >$1200 laptop per year? How much money does Google make off of your info? The ISPs are rolling in cash. They have terrible customer service. They…

> The ISPs are rolling in cash. Common myth. - Comcast made merely $2B in profits last year.[verified] - ATT made around $5B from wireline data last year. [unverified] A lot of people think these are monopolies with the help of government without realising that a lot of companies including Google tried to bring disruption and have failed. Part of the reason why not many people are wasting their capital on wireline is…

> merely $2B in profits last year

I've never seen billions of dollars in profits dismissed so casually.

>ISPs have terrible customer service because most of their efforts are going into keeping those wires and fibres intact.

ISP's in other countries, even ones of similar scale to the US, don't have to chose between quality customer service and quality internet service. To call your argument facile would be overly generous.

Re: Proposed “Internet Freedom Act” permanently guts net neutrality authority

#86

Post by caconym_ »

pvnick wrote: post #80

Only children cry for grownups when they don't get their way. If you receive enough value from your internet and cell phone that you are willing to spend $50/month for those services, then that is what they are worth.

If your child is dying and I have a medicine that can save him but my price is that you hand over your life's savings and become a slave in my salt mines for the rest of your life, and you do it because you don't want your kid to die, was it worth it? Or is there something else going on?

ISPs are a cartel protected by corrupt politicians. Let's sort that out before we start claiming that the free market is working and these services are priced appropriately and fairly.

Re: Proposed “Internet Freedom Act” permanently guts net neutrality authority

#87

Post by anigbrowl »

deelowe wrote: post #52
arca_vorago wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What lots of people don't know is many ISPs across the country took that money and shoved it in exec pockets and then raised rates and never invested in infrastructure. An exec of one in my area for example was caught embezzling millions of that grant money.

Like most things, what really happened is complicated. Here's a good hn thread on the matter. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7709556 If you have more interest in understanding the issue, there's plenty of good assessments. Everything from the explosion of wireless, to hdtv, to local municipalities, to mergers, and technological limitations are to blame.

I really wish that we as a society would spend less time sitting around figuring out who to blame for shit and actually invest in the things we claim to care about. I am sick to the back teeth of bullshit free market ideologies that have an extremely poor track record in reality.

That does not mean I am opposed to or deny the value of markets.

Re: Proposed “Internet Freedom Act” permanently guts net neutrality authority

#88

Post by [deleted] »

zerocrates wrote: post #34
bkeroack wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He talks about the "light touch" framework of the Bill Clinton era, which saw telecos profit immensely and never feed any money back into their system. Even in the 1990s it was obvious that the copper network was obsolete and any additional money put into it would be a wasted investment. > Comcast sued the Electric Power Board in TN a few years later to keep them from offering Fibre to the home Chairman Pai specifi…

What's this great innovation in the wireline broadband space being stifled by overeager regulators? Presumably there's some concrete example of what our friends the competitive ISPs want to do and are unable to because of the regulations. Or even, what they _used_ to be able to do: Title II reclassification is obviously very recent and the prior "Open Internet" or net neutrality orders weren't long before that. I sus…

[deleted]

Re: Proposed “Internet Freedom Act” permanently guts net neutrality authority

#89

Post by jressey »

pvnick wrote: post #70
jressey wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Barriers to entry in the ISP game are too high for competition. Google can't even hack it. What is your perspective as a free-market advocate in this scenario?

Wait patiently for the inevitable correction. E.g. innovation like this and other things we can't even imagine yet: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/17/elon-musk...

Your answer actually resonates with me to some degree. It is not my position but I get it and think it would work in an ideal world without corrupted officials. As it stands, I see the less advanced technology thriving for longer than it should, for example fossil fuels today are not being replaced at a pace that would align with what the market demands. More and better government programs to increase sustainable energy would lead to breakthroughs, more (better) jobs, and a healthier economy for 99%. Musk's space-internet would be pushed against for years or decades because of entrenched institutions.

How do you feel about the effect killing net neutrality would have on small businesses that can't afford the fast lanes that their larger competitors would use?

Re: Proposed “Internet Freedom Act” permanently guts net neutrality authority

#90

Post by anigbrowl »

drdaeman wrote: post #36
epistasis wrote: post #2

This is why politics is important, even in tech. We need some grownups to represent us. If you spend ~$50/month on home internet access, and $50/month on cell phone access, that's $1200/year for internet connectivity. How much do you spend on hardware per year? Do you buy a >$1200 laptop per year? How much money does Google make off of your info? The ISPs are rolling in cash. They have terrible customer service. They…

I don't know about the US, but it surely can't be like even greediest ISPs are not having any expenses and just hoarding cash enjoying their monopolies. Even though customers sometimes feel that way. I believe the following must be true for every ISP on the planet. Hardware crashes and/or dies - power surges, thunderstorms, vandalism, firmware bugs, old age, human errors - all sorts of stuff happen almost daily. It a…

It's not like people are demanding universal free internet so I'm not sure what point you're attempting to make.
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