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Badly educated men have not adapted well to trade, technology or feminism (2015)

economist.com

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Re: Badly educated men have not adapted well to trade, technology or feminism (2015)

#81

Post by Sammi »

deelowe wrote: post #59
krath94 wrote: post #19

"Although there is no reason in theory why men could not become nurses or care-home assistants, few do." This is true, but why is it that the shortage of women in technology fields is attributed to them not being accepted or even forced out? Maybe this isn't the general attitude, but I have certainly heard people say that woman aren't in tech as much because they feel unwelcome, whereas when talking about men in thos…

I wonder how many people making these statements and doing these analysis have spent any significant amount of time with kids. Girls, in general, prefer social interaction, helping people, working as a group, etc... Boys, in general, prefer physical activity, constructing things, and admiring the fruits of their labor from afar. This might not be the best characterization, but you get the point. I see this in very ve…

What you are saying is actually scientifically supported: http://www.math.kth.se/matstat/gru/godis/sex.pdf

"102 human neonates, who by definition have not yet been influenced by social and cultural factors, were tested to see if there was a difference in looking time at a face (social object) and a mobile (physical-mechanical object). Results showed that the male infants showed a stronger interest in the physical-mechanical mobile while the female infants showed a stronger interest in the face. The results of this research clearly demonstrate that sex differences are in part biological in origin."

Neonate means newborn child.

Re: Badly educated men have not adapted well to trade, technology or feminism (2015)

#83

Post by cyphunk »

padseeker wrote: post #57

Apparently this story has been flagged. Why?

an answer to this would be nice. I could imagine some valid reasons but considering where we are (a place generally sensistive to things that could be considered "male-bashing") one does wonder.

Re: Badly educated men have not adapted well to trade, technology or feminism (2015)

#84

Post by pksohn »

krath94 wrote: post #80
panglott wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible that men feel unwelcome in female-dominated areas for the same reason women may in male-dominated areas: it can be intimidating to enter a group of people of the opposite sex, with their own norms and microaggressions and who feel entitled and encouraged to be there, when you have received numerous social signals that's weird for you to be there or even want to be there. Unless those people and institut…

"microaggressions" You mean someone saying something completely normal with no ill intention and someone else, for whatever reason, getting offended?

It's not about getting offended or not. It's the small assumptions that, when repeated ad infinitum, build up social beliefs and structures that make it harder for certain people to succeed or fit in. The fact that folks on HN or Reddit constantly refer to their anonymous peers with male pronouns might make a female programmer a little less welcome. It may offend her, it may not, but it certainly doesn't help.

Re: Badly educated men have not adapted well to trade, technology or feminism (2015)

#85

Post by yardie »

krath94 wrote: post #19

"Although there is no reason in theory why men could not become nurses or care-home assistants, few do." This is true, but why is it that the shortage of women in technology fields is attributed to them not being accepted or even forced out? Maybe this isn't the general attitude, but I have certainly heard people say that woman aren't in tech as much because they feel unwelcome, whereas when talking about men in thos…

The only profession I know that men aren't welcome has been teaching. At least in the US, any man that wants to work with young children is viewed as a potential pedophile. In middle and high school they are subject to calls of sexual predication.

RNs and CNAs don't have this problem. Male nurses aren't seen as sexual predators, some simply don't want to do it. And most don't have any visibility into the field to see it as a potential career.

Re: Badly educated men have not adapted well to trade, technology or feminism (2015)

#86

Post by root_axis »

padseeker wrote: post #57

Apparently this story has been flagged. Why?

Because users flagged it.

Why did various individuals flag it? You'll have to ask them on an individual basis, but it's clear based on the comments that some view the article as inflammatory. I'd bet there are also quite a few that flag anything explicitly discussing gender or politics if it doesn't involve a tech company.

Re: Badly educated men have not adapted well to trade, technology or feminism (2015)

#87

Post by root_axis »

yardie wrote: post #85
krath94 wrote: post #19

"Although there is no reason in theory why men could not become nurses or care-home assistants, few do." This is true, but why is it that the shortage of women in technology fields is attributed to them not being accepted or even forced out? Maybe this isn't the general attitude, but I have certainly heard people say that woman aren't in tech as much because they feel unwelcome, whereas when talking about men in thos…

The only profession I know that men aren't welcome has been teaching. At least in the US, any man that wants to work with young children is viewed as a potential pedophile. In middle and high school they are subject to calls of sexual predication. RNs and CNAs don't have this problem. Male nurses aren't seen as sexual predators, some simply don't want to do it. And most don't have any visibility into the field to see…

Maybe elementary school teachers, but after about 5th grade the stigma seems to fade.

Re: Badly educated men have not adapted well to trade, technology or feminism (2015)

#88

Post by extra88 »

justinzollars wrote: post #35
trendia wrote: post #4

I hoped reading this would provide insight, but instead it only offered some random eassywriter's disdain of people different from him/herself.

I work with a dude who is 50 from Michigan. It's amazing to hear stories of what an American lifestyle in the 70's and 80's was like. With 40,000 income he could buy a house, a vacation house in northern Michigan, a boat and two great vacations a year. Its hard to admit standards of living are decreasing. There is def a lot of blame to go around. I agree one should not be disdainful of people who are different. This…

Sounds a lot older than fifty. A fifty-year old would have been thirteen in 1980. Maybe they're sixty?

Median household income in 1980 was $16,671 [0] so someone making $40,000 was a high earner. In 2014 it was $53,013.

[0] http://www.davemanuel.com/median-household-income.php

Re: Badly educated men have not adapted well to trade, technology or feminism (2015)

#89

Post by panglott »

krath94 wrote: post #80
panglott wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible that men feel unwelcome in female-dominated areas for the same reason women may in male-dominated areas: it can be intimidating to enter a group of people of the opposite sex, with their own norms and microaggressions and who feel entitled and encouraged to be there, when you have received numerous social signals that's weird for you to be there or even want to be there. Unless those people and institut…

"microaggressions" You mean someone saying something completely normal with no ill intention and someone else, for whatever reason, getting offended?

"for whatever reason" says it all. If you can't even pretend to care what they think, don't try to pretend you've been welcoming.

Re: Badly educated men have not adapted well to trade, technology or feminism (2015)

#90

Post by deelowe »

Sammi wrote: post #81
deelowe wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how many people making these statements and doing these analysis have spent any significant amount of time with kids. Girls, in general, prefer social interaction, helping people, working as a group, etc... Boys, in general, prefer physical activity, constructing things, and admiring the fruits of their labor from afar. This might not be the best characterization, but you get the point. I see this in very ve…

What you are saying is actually scientifically supported: http://www.math.kth.se/matstat/gru/godis/sex.pdf "102 human neonates, who by definition have not yet been influenced by social and cultural factors, were tested to see if there was a difference in looking time at a face (social object) and a mobile (physical-mechanical object). Results showed that the male infants showed a stronger interest in the physical-mec…

Good to see that I'm not crazy. I guess I'm back to wondering why everyone else is. :-)
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