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N.S.A Halts Collection of Americans’ Emails About Foreign Targets

nytimes.com

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Re: N.S.A Halts Collection of Americans’ Emails About Foreign Targets

#81

Post by justinclift »

btilly wrote: post #79
mtgx wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are judges only focusing on the "search" part of the Fourth Amendment and not on the "seizure" part as well? That kind of action should count as a seizure, no? > The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularl…

If you still have the thing, it clearly hasn't been seized. Therefore the only question left is whether it was a search.

That draws an interesting counterpoint: the RIAA's long standing attempt to have copying of non-physical things be perceived as theft.

Re: N.S.A Halts Collection of Americans’ Emails About Foreign Targets

#83

Post by dbg31415 »

If you believe this, I have a bridge to sell you.

We'd need to understand what their definition of NSA, or collection, or emails are.

I think it's most likely they are saying that the entire NSA as a whole isn't doing collection, only some subset of the NSA is... and maybe they define collection as capturing and retaining information for 10 years, and now they are only doing it for 9 years 11 months... and emails mean everything you ever do online and SnapChat and Signal and Texts too.

Do not trust these people.

Re: N.S.A Halts Collection of Americans’ Emails About Foreign Targets

#85

Post by lern_too_spel »

nyolfen wrote: post #57
lern_too_spel wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EO 12333 doesn't redefine collection. Data collected abroad under 12333 is still "acquired" according to the definition in the NSA's documents leaked by Snowden. Do you have any documents that you can point to that say otherwise?

i should have been less ambiguous, sorry -- USSID 18 is derived from EO 12333, and USSID 18 nominally provides protections to US citizens from being spied upon; USSID 18 also is what has a secret interpretation by NSA lawyers that most people would probably feel is not in the spirit of the EO. here's a very nice writeup: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/06/primer-executive-order... section 4 outlines collection pol…

Section 9 of that document defines "collection" to mean what you would expect it to mean.

Re: N.S.A Halts Collection of Americans’ Emails About Foreign Targets

#86

Post by encryptThrow32 »

The filter on XKS that prevents US hits on selectors has been enhanced to satisfy ruling of the court.

Its still collected in perpetuity, but under the Schrödinger approach to surveillance it no longer exists.

Maybe nothing can truly change, just as one cannot uninvent a technology -- telephony, broadcasting or social media are with us forever. Maybe true to for global passive surveillance.

Re: N.S.A Halts Collection of Americans’ Emails About Foreign Targets

#88

Post by rl3 »

mirimir wrote: post #76
colordrops wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not only a matter of definitions. It's also a matter of belief. The head of the NSA has lied directly to congress about data collection activities. We have absolutely no reason to believe they will have actually stopped collecting data even if they say so.

Right. It's prudent to assume that the NSA intercepts all Internet traffic, and stores as much as they can, for as long as they can, focusing on what seems most important. Everything is retained for a few days. Then they triage, based on names, addresses, keywords, and so on. Metadata and encrypted stuff, they reportedly retain indefinitely.

According to Russ Tice, the NSA has been conducting full-take domestic content collection on everyone.

In other words, not only metadata but full recordings and content of anything they can feasibly store—phone calls, text messages, internet conversations, video chat.

Collecting on Americans in such a manner satisfies legal requirements because the very definition of collection has been twisted to effectively mean accessing intercepted content present in storage.

The term metadata in particular was intentionally bandied about as a means of distracting from the fact NSA is getting everything. The metadata programs killed by congress amounted to little more than a dog and pony show, sacrificing deprecated programs for political ends. Personally I think it was a brilliant damage control measure.

Snowden arguably didn't help matters either, constantly using the term himself. The content he leaked was largely from JWICS, which wouldn't contain documents outlining the gory details of full-take domestic surveillance. Those likely are heavily compartmented, and reside on much more secure networks.

Re: N.S.A Halts Collection of Americans’ Emails About Foreign Targets

#89

Post by nyolfen »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #85
nyolfen wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i should have been less ambiguous, sorry -- USSID 18 is derived from EO 12333, and USSID 18 nominally provides protections to US citizens from being spied upon; USSID 18 also is what has a secret interpretation by NSA lawyers that most people would probably feel is not in the spirit of the EO. here's a very nice writeup: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/06/primer-executive-order... section 4 outlines collection pol…

Section 9 of that document defines "collection" to mean what you would expect it to mean.

the issue is that there is a secret interpretation of it, as i explained in each of the above posts

edit: if the term' collection' is your major gripe, i apologize -- i rewatched the video i cited and the term is actually 'intercept', not 'collect'

Re: N.S.A Halts Collection of Americans’ Emails About Foreign Targets

#90

Post by andreyf »

alistproducer2 wrote: post #16
Baeocystin wrote: post #3

Things that I do not for one second believe: this. Maybe this one particular program, under one particular name, sure. But overall? I just don't see it. I am not saying this cynically, I just don't. Data collection is too easy, database queries too simple.

You took the words right out of my head. The propaganda coming out of mainstream media (on all sides) is not even close to believable anymore. Nothing is true and everything is possible.

Huh? Yes, there's propaganda on all sides, and always has been, but the dystopian reality-surrender of NiT EiP does not immediately follow in the least. People paying attention have a very clear grasp on what is true and what is possible.
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