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Goodbye Amazon

princeton-audio.com

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Re: Goodbye Amazon

#81

Post by jasode »

flubert wrote: post #71
jasode wrote: post #4

>Our Site:1 speakers are lovingly handcrafted. We make them one at a time, to our customer's desired spec, [...] If all goes smoothly, this process takes about six weeks. >Amazon relentlessly pushed us to accept lead-times that were typically only four days, and sometimes demanded fulfillment of orders in as little as 24 hours--including delivery. Amazon is not really an appropriate distribution platform for 6-week c…

>Amazon is not really an appropriate distribution platform for 6-week custom-made-to-order products. Maybe there's another well-known retail site that caters to that type of vendor but it certainly isn't Amazon (or Walmart). But there is Amazon Handmade (which is supposed to be the Amazon Etsy): https://services.amazon.com/handmade/handmade.html ...and Amazon Custom: https://services.amazon.com/custom.html ..and Amaz…

>...so it looks like Amazon has their hands in other areas besides distribution of mass manufactured parts.

For your 3 examples, I clicked on "Explore the store" and of the dozen or so random items I clicked on, it was 1 to 3 days delivery. I also found a wooden cutting board that you could personalize with a customer name (laser etching) and that was 3 to 6 business days.

I didn't see any item that said 6 weeks for delivery like Etsy has.

The Princeton Audio article didn't specify but I'm guessing[1] he's using one of these 2 Amazon partner programs:

1) https://vendorexpress.amazon.com

2) https://www.amazon.com/gp/launchpad

This gets you a special Amazon products page with the cachet of "Ships from and sold by Amazon.com" which is more valuable than "Fulfilled by Amazon." Those programs are not appropriate for 2 month lead times.

[1] PA's dedicated Amazon product page which you can no longer reach from Amazon search but Google still had a link: https://www.amazon.com/Princeton-Audio-Site-Tonewood-Bluetoo...

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#82

Post by icc97 »

stcredzero wrote: post #16
hannob wrote: post #7

When I read sentences like this: "We steadfastly refuse to be purveyors of cheap, plastic, mass-produced, craptastic speakers made on an assembly line in China that contribute nothing of value to the lives of our customers or the town we call home." I'm always amazed how much subtle racism seems to be acceptable when it comes to talking about China. This sentence contains so many hidden assumptions, e.g. "product fro…

That assumption once applied to Made in Japan. If you go back even longer, it once even applied to things made in North America.

US companies didn't start massively outsourcing their entire product manufacturing to Japan. Japanese companies just made didn't just make cheaper products they were often better and more reliable. Japanese manufacturing was more innovative, not just cheap.

If it were Chinese companies that were making their own products I wouldn't mind so much. I happily buy from Lenovo because I think they make good quality laptops and treat their workers better than other laptop manufacturers.

But it isn't, it's just big corporations that want cheaper labour.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#83

Post by awfgylbcxhrey »

colmvp wrote: post #66
bostonpete wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many Chinese goods traditionally have had a reputation of low quality. Maybe that reputation is outdated or perhaps it was never quite accurate (?), but either way I don't think it's reasonable to label a reference to that reputation as racist. Nor is wanting to build businesses that benefit your local community racist or particularly wrong.

Almost every object in my house has some sort of component made in China. The fact that I haven't had to replace any of them in years AND that it didn't cost an arm and a leg compared to being manufactured here in my local country should be testament to the output of that country. It's like we're completely spoiled by how absurdly cheap and mostly reliable things that we use on a day to day basis. To me, it's akin to…

>There's nothing that implicitly makes something made in Canada, or USA, or Germany that much better than if it were made in China.

I'd say that there is, sort of. Much of the manufacturing that remains in the USA is for industrial applications, with specific requirements for performance and reliability. We basically exported the consumer product manufacturing category, and with it went the majority of the low quality market.

It's like the legendary status of "American made tools". When my grandfather passed away, I got some of his American tools from the 40s - 70s. They're junkier than most tools you'll find at Walmart or Harbor Freight today. Why? Because he was relatively poor and bought cheap, domestic tools built for the hobbiest market.

The one exception I've read is that China isn't producing raw steel that's as high quality as US and German steel. I was looking into tubing benders awhile back and read several accounts of even high-grade Chinese steel kinking at the same wall thickness where American and German steel continued to bend smoothly.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#84

Post by phonon »

dsr_ wrote: post #37
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #8

Our Site:1 speakers are lovingly handcrafted. We make them one at a time, to our customer's desired spec, using their preferred tonewoods, choice of hardware, as well as other unique customizations. ... The only way to meet their demands would have been to mass-produce huge volumes of speakers featuring no customizations. How is Amazon even possibly a good place to sell this kind of an item? People overwhelmingly go…

Actually, it looks like they are making nice wood cabinets for cheap low-quality parts: - a "full range" 3" speaker is about $7, quantity 1. - a 20W at 10% THD class D amplifier with bluetooth input is $25, retail. (Yes, that's a terrible spec. It's what Princeton claims.) - a battery is $8 - a few dollars for a fancy knob and grille. So they are charging about $300 for their cabinets and integration of all the above…

Well, the amp is fine as long as it's kept under 10 W. (Fig. 9, http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpa3001d1.pdf

OTOH, it's a $1.80 part...and retail, in a board, under $7 :-)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-8V-20V-Mini-TPA3001D1-20W-Mono-Cl...

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#85

Post by wand3r »

RyanOD wrote: post #73
athenot wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Amazon is not really an appropriate distribution platform for 6-week custom-made-to-order products. Maybe there's another well-known retail site that caters to that type of vendor but it certainly isn't Amazon (or Walmart) . Perhaps Etsy would be a better platform for that product?

Or Amazon Handmade? Does anyone know if Amazon treats Handmade sellers the same as standard Amazon sellers?

I don't think they would trust Amazon again

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#86

Post by CodeWriter23 »

jasode wrote: post #81
flubert wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Amazon is not really an appropriate distribution platform for 6-week custom-made-to-order products. Maybe there's another well-known retail site that caters to that type of vendor but it certainly isn't Amazon (or Walmart). But there is Amazon Handmade (which is supposed to be the Amazon Etsy): https://services.amazon.com/handmade/handmade.html ...and Amazon Custom: https://services.amazon.com/custom.html ..and Amaz…

>...so it looks like Amazon has their hands in other areas besides distribution of mass manufactured parts. For your 3 examples, I clicked on "Explore the store" and of the dozen or so random items I clicked on, it was 1 to 3 days delivery. I also found a wooden cutting board that you could personalize with a customer name (laser etching) and that was 3 to 6 business days. I didn't see any item that said 6 weeks for…

Exactly. If they had chosen instead to use FBA, ALL of the frustrations Princeton documented would disappear. Of course they would be replaced with a different set of frustrations associated with FBA, but they would be able to set their own price, their own priorities, etc.

I have a friend who works for a company that is a supplier for Amazon and Home Depot. He says they are both equally demanding and inflexible. I think that's just the game when being a supplier for big box inc. And obviously Princeton is not a big box product.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#87

Post by cthalupa »

ctvo wrote: post #44
dsr_ wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it looks like they are making nice wood cabinets for cheap low-quality parts: - a "full range" 3" speaker is about $7, quantity 1. - a 20W at 10% THD class D amplifier with bluetooth input is $25, retail. (Yes, that's a terrible spec. It's what Princeton claims.) - a battery is $8 - a few dollars for a fancy knob and grille. So they are charging about $300 for their cabinets and integration of all the above…

Can you do a breakdown for a MacBook Pro for me. I paid over 3k for the latest one. I'd love to know how much all the parts cost sans casing and integration.

As an audio enthusiast who spends far too much money on speakers and other gear:

This isn't the same. The actual transducers and gear in these things is very low-end.

Their gimmick seems to be the "tonewoods", which when you take into account the level of electronics in these is just silly. It's nearly cable riser levels of snake oil. Couple that with the fact that this is streamed over bluetooth (They mention using aptX, but not what variant, and even the aptx 'lossless' variant is still lossy in many circumstances... and iPhones and many android phones don't support aptX at all) where you are using lossy compression over what is already likely a lossy compressed file, and your audio quality is going to be pretty terrible, all things considered.

You better be buying these things for the looks, because they're certainly not worth the price for the level of performance. You might claim you're paying a premium on an MBP for looks and such, but there's genuinely good hardware inside a MBP. This is a $30 wireless speaker with $270+ being spent on a gimmick.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#88

Post by j-c-hewitt »

pgrote wrote: post #49
j-c-hewitt wrote: post #30

They could have used Amazon Custom (which is a new service that's mostly focused on apparel, but still) or Amazon Handmade (Amazon's Etsy clone) instead of using the typical system for selling manufactured products. They were setting themselves up for failure by selling an artisan product on a marketplace designed for factory produced goods. It makes no sense to criticize Amazon for being what it is, which is mostly…

I am a huge amazon customer and fan. Thank you for mentioning Amazon Handmade ... I had no idea it existed. How odd is that? I don't think I've seen an email from them about it and it never shows in product searches.

It's quite new. It does show up for some product searches but to really surface it you have to know it exists. Same thing with Custom.

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#89

Post by detaro »

athenot wrote: post #39
jasode wrote: post #4

>Our Site:1 speakers are lovingly handcrafted. We make them one at a time, to our customer's desired spec, [...] If all goes smoothly, this process takes about six weeks. >Amazon relentlessly pushed us to accept lead-times that were typically only four days, and sometimes demanded fulfillment of orders in as little as 24 hours--including delivery. Amazon is not really an appropriate distribution platform for 6-week c…

> Amazon is not really an appropriate distribution platform for 6-week custom-made-to-order products. Maybe there's another well-known retail site that caters to that type of vendor but it certainly isn't Amazon (or Walmart) . Perhaps Etsy would be a better platform for that product?

Anecdotally, Etsy has issues with electronic items not being "hand-made" enough. (Some small music gear makers had problems with that)

Re: Goodbye Amazon

#90

Post by pebers »

thomed wrote: post #40

If Amazon had let you control their retail pricing wouldn't that be price fixing? You can set a recommended price, but once you've accepted the wholesale price, you live with it. If the retailer decides to dump your product at a loss, that's their choice no?

Princeton aren't complaining about Amazon dumping their product, they're complaining that Amazon wouldn't accept them trying to raise the price they sell to Amazon for - hence them terminating the relationship. There's no attempt at price fixing on either side, just a mismatch of business models.
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