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Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

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Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#81

Post by kleinbottlez »

jMyles wrote: post #29
hourislate wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It strikes me as odd that Americans don't seem to mind that a President to some extent might be serving the interests of a foreign power above the interests of the his own citizens. Who would have thought so many Americans would have a love affair with a KGB Agent that is responsible for murder and oppression and for his entire life worked to undermine America and has accomplished that to some extent with this Admini…

I think that the part you are missing is that the vast majority (like 65%) don't support or respect this President at all. Of all the terrible things the government has done in the past 1 / 10 / 100 years, I don't think that a candidate coordinating with Russia about which fake news to publish is even worth mentioning. If Congress has the guts to investigate the Steele dossier (which alleged Trump traded eased regula…

> I don't think that a candidate coordinating with Russia about which fake news to publish

Not to attack your statement in particular, but rather piggybacking on it as an illustration of those who are actually making this claim, to whom I ask:

Can you please provide me with an example of a widely publicized "fake news" that might have had a significant impact on the campaign, or otherwise swayed people opinion in favor of DJT? I can think of plenty of flat out misleading insinuations that were constantly being churned out by the left leaning media establishment the minute Trump started to pick up momentum.

Because that was the narrative the Obama admin started to run with as election day was getting closer, you know, just in case, and I found it laughable. That's when the whole "fake news" gimmick spontaneously became a thing across all major media outlets.

Surely they weren't referring to the dozens of accurate and damning emails published by Wikileaks exposing the corruption and media collusion of the democratic party in favor of one of their candidates, were they? Surely it wasn't related to the money trails and other shady transactions performed by the Clintons as exposed in Peter Schweizer's investigation [1]?

Are we to believe that somehow Trump's campaign "coordinated" with Russian operatives? What does that even entail exactly, besides trying to de-escalate the situation exacerbated by Obama when he tried to poison the well by expelling 35 Russians diplomats, as a retaliation for a yet unproven "interference" [2]?

Did Trump time his tactical tweets by the second for optimal impact according to good ole Vlad's recommendations? I mean seriously, can you please enlighten me with some sound logic on this? Because you will find that this will inexorably lead you to look inward at your own shitshow of a democratic party [3], and perhaps the cognitive dissonance will cease... or intensify.

Full disclosure: I was a Rand Paul supporter.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/20/us/politics/new-book-clin...

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/29/barack-obama...

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNZmXhxuThU

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#82

Post by generic_user »

themihai wrote: post #75
generic_user wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the alternative is to keep a population held together with a narrative manufactured by the central state along side a brutal military police apparatus to manage compliance. I think the real culprit is that the masters of the universe who crashed the economy have not been able to put humpty dumpty back together again. And only managed to make the upper 1% fabulously wealthy why the rest of the population has a sink…

What are you talking about? The fake news are basically like the spam and phishing sites except they are state sponsored. Freedom of speech doesn't mean you have to bombarded by propaganda spread by russian bots. This is cyberwar. Sooner or later things will get quite nasty.

Are you sure its bots? The Russians could have very easily hacked your computer and planted a virus that tracks you and injects personalized propaganda based on there secret profile of you.

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#83

Post by toyg »

wyldfire wrote: post #13
jMyles wrote: post #2

Listen, I know it's a big deal when the POTUS lies. But aren't we used to it by now? If Trump somehow manages not to be a criminal and a crook (which seems downright impossible), it will be highly unusual for the recent history of his office. Now: other than bluster, what is there actually about this "Russia" probe? What exactly are we investigating? Whether Russia was involved in "fake news" stories? Whether Russia…

I think the level of infighting in the US and Europe now is different from anything I've seen over the last couple of decades. The democratization of media is a net benefit but it helped bring about a world's worth of people seeking out news that matches their world view. It's made it very easy to spawn animus and make everything into an "us vs them" issue. I think Russia is overtly and covertly involved in an effort…

> The democratization of media is a net benefit but it helped bring about [...]

We are living through the modern equivalent of when Guthenberg's technology allowed people to print their own bibles. You might remember how that one turned out: a huge religious schism, civil wars, large-scale terrorism, new laws enshrining religious discrimination which lasted for centuries...

I'm not saying this is what will happen; I think we've just underestimated the chaos the internet might have unleashed. It will certainly be worth it, in the long run; but at the moment it doesn't feel that great.

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#84

Post by dr_ick »

jtedward wrote: post #80
dr_ick wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought we're looking at Hillary being connected to Saudi Arabia for her financing as well as giving Russia 20% of U.S. uranium in exchange for donations to the Clinton Foundation, as well as Podesta ties to a Russian entity called Rusnano, and how Obama used a slush fund to move money to leftist hate groups. Did you want all this in writing from Hillary and notarized that she did this? Because that's not how it wo…

This is not an adult response.

Why? Because it doesn't fit your world view and what the media is feeding to you?

The left is throwing a temper tantrum, at the same time hand waving away any possible wrongdoing by their members.

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#85

Post by mcphage »

losvedir wrote: post #58

I'm not a Trump supporter (voted for Johnson but would have voted for Clinton if it mattered in my state), but this whole "Russia" investigation feels like partisan signaling nonsense like the Benghazi hearings. Flynn didn't do anything illegal (I've yet to see a compelling argument that the Logan Act would apply here), just a breach of protocol. It was lying to Pence that did him in. Manafort consulted for lots of p…

> Flynn didn't do anything illegal (I've yet to see a compelling argument that the Logan Act would apply here), just a breach of protocol. It was lying to Pence that did him in.

Maybe you're right, but he's asking for immunity for something—see elsewhere in this thread where Flynn has made his views on immunity deals clear.

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#86

Post by maxerickson »

hackuser wrote: post #48

Has the United States ever convicted someone on the level of National Security Advisor (i.e., effectively a member of the cabinet, such as Secretary of Defense), or even put them on trial? Petraeus got a slap on the wrist, but for actions while he was a General. In other countries, even the heads of state get put on trial. Off the top of my head, it's happened relatively recently in France and Israel. In the U.S., I…

Iran-Contra was a pretty high level scandal.

And Bill Clinton was put on trial.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#87

Post by [deleted] »

generic_user wrote: post #82
themihai wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? The fake news are basically like the spam and phishing sites except they are state sponsored. Freedom of speech doesn't mean you have to bombarded by propaganda spread by russian bots. This is cyberwar. Sooner or later things will get quite nasty.

Are you sure its bots? The Russians could have very easily hacked your computer and planted a virus that tracks you and injects personalized propaganda based on there secret profile of you.

[deleted]

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#88

Post by jtedward »

dr_ick wrote: post #84
jtedward wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not an adult response.

Why? Because it doesn't fit your world view and what the media is feeding to you? The left is throwing a temper tantrum, at the same time hand waving away any possible wrongdoing by their members.

What you're doing right now fits my worldview like a nice pair of gloves.

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#89

Post by mozumder »

dr_ick wrote: post #68
mozumder wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically we're looking at Trump being connected to Russian mafia for all his financing as well as Putin bribing him with 19% stake in the Russian state oil company for removing sanctions, as well as assisting with his campaign by hacking into the Podesta emails, sorta like how there were Watergate DNC office burglars. Did you want all this in writing from Trump and notarized that he did this? Because that's not how…

I thought we're looking at Hillary being connected to Saudi Arabia for her financing as well as giving Russia 20% of U.S. uranium in exchange for donations to the Clinton Foundation, as well as Podesta ties to a Russian entity called Rusnano, and how Obama used a slush fund to move money to leftist hate groups. Did you want all this in writing from Hillary and notarized that she did this? Because that's not how it wo…

Right. That's why government already investigated this and cleared her.

Hillary Clinton appreciates your support and making it clear that Trump is the problem now.

Let's now focus on Trump, since he is the government official that is being investigated for corruption now.

What other problems do you think Trump will show?

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#90

Post by jMyles »

nyolfen wrote: post #71
jMyles wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If "messed with" the election just means misleading propaganda, then is it really an issue if they coordinated with them? How is it any different than hiring a PR firm based in another country?

forgive me if i'm being uncharitable, but it comes across as if you're being willfully obtuse. "messed with" means hacking and possible criminal coordination between a campaign and russian officials. if it came out that the clinton campaign had coordinated with [insert historic rival] intelligence, people would be calling for executions.

> if it came out that the clinton campaign had coordinated with [insert historic rival] intelligence, people would be calling for executions.

...not sure which Clinton you mean here, but if you meant Bill, it's quite likely that he did indeed coordinate with Saudi Intelligence in a reasonably similar fashion.

...and so did the man he defeated, George H.W. Bush.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/08/23/world/clinton-and-his-ties...

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