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Differences between San Francisco and London (2014)

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Re: Differences between San Francisco and London (2014)

#81

Post by kintamanimatt »

hueving wrote: post #45
tensor wrote: post #36

My view of San Francisco culture as an outsider is actually quite negative now. For years I thought it was a culture very in line with my own, but after years of watching and interacting remotely with people from that scene my mind has changed. I now feel it's largely dominated by arrogance. Everyone wants to "change the world" but what they really want is fame and fortune. A San Francisco startup is hilariously not…

>It's ludicrous extremes like having pingpong tables and games and coffee baristas at work. This is not living "frugally." If a pingpong table and games are a major expense in your company, you're already dead. A barista is wasteful, unless he/she is serving coffee to hundreds of employees that would otherwise waste company time by leaving the office for a coffee break. As an engineer, I avoid companies like the plag…

> If a pingpong table and games are a major expense in your company, you're already dead.

I would disagree with such a sweeping statement. There are lots of bootstrapped companies that can't afford such things, nor do they even have the office space for them. This doesn't mean they're "already dead", it means they're doing things differently in the early days and prioritizing other expenses. Not every startup wants to be a VC-funded enterprise.

An established company, on other other hand...

Re: Differences between San Francisco and London (2014)

#82

Post by rogy »

dustinmoris wrote: post #68
JDiculous wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never lived in SF or Europe, but as an American who's lived in the suburbs of DC and now NYC, it seems to me that Americans in general are less internationally conscious than Europeans. Most Europeans I know speak 3+ languages, have studied and lived abroad, and have traveled extensively. Americans in my experience tend to be more insular and less cultured. And it makes sense because Europe has so many different…

As an European who speaks 3 languages I can agree to that. I live in London and even though British people may not speak as many languages as the average continental European person, but most Europeans and especially British people have literally traveled the world. I don't even mean that Europeans travel more because they jump a few European borders. Most European people I know have taken a whole year out after univ…

This is totally untrue. As someone from the north of england, now living in London I would say In London I would put that number closer to 25%, but that says more about the type of people that move to London than it does about Europeans in general.

Re: Differences between San Francisco and London (2014)

#83

Post by bogomipz »

acchow wrote: post #59
bogomipz wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this relevant? The Bay area is not San Francisco. The post is comparing London with San Francisco. San Francisco is tiny compared to London in both area and population.

One of you is talking about SF the city. The other about SF the political entity.

San Francisco the political entity what is that? At any rate the blog post isn't about politics at all.

San Francisco is a city and the "Bay Area" is a region. In London people from both Chiswick and Hackney which are quite far away from each other both say they are from London. Someone from Sonoma and someone from Santa Clara don't say they're from San Francisco.

Re: Differences between San Francisco and London (2014)

#84

Post by akgerber »

fudged71 wrote: post #37
JDiculous wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never lived in SF or Europe, but as an American who's lived in the suburbs of DC and now NYC, it seems to me that Americans in general are less internationally conscious than Europeans. Most Europeans I know speak 3+ languages, have studied and lived abroad, and have traveled extensively. Americans in my experience tend to be more insular and less cultured. And it makes sense because Europe has so many different…

Exactly. I'm Canadian, and although my friends travel pretty regularly to the US/Mexico and sometimes Europe, I was amazed living in London how often my coworkers would be in other countries. Despite being near the US border, I rarely see people do weekend trips to the states, but it happens all the time between european countries it seems. Maybe flight prices have an impact, but europe just seems completely differen…

A trip between London and Paris is faster than a trip between New York and Boston.

Re: Differences between San Francisco and London (2014)

#85

Post by leovonl »

How can one compare UK and US and say the later has better social mobility? Ever heard of NHS (1) or council housing? Have you compared tuition fees on both countries?

While I mostly understand the different atmosphere on both places, and even agree with some of the points, I have to say the author had to be pretty immersed in a very particular bubble to have come to this conclusion - which does not seem to fit reality as all.

(1) Yes, NHS has its problems, but US simply does not have anything like it.

Re: Differences between San Francisco and London (2014)

#86

Post by Wh1zz »

krystiangw wrote: post #67

San Francisco's climate is way better. But looks like theare are more programming jobs in London ( ~ 250 ) vs San Francisco ( ~ 140 ) https://jobsquery.it/jobs;page=1;tags=;sortBy=PUBLISHED_AT_D... VS https://jobsquery.it/jobs;page=1;tags=;sortBy=PUBLISHED_AT_D...

London also has more than 10 times the population of SF...

Re: Differences between San Francisco and London (2014)

#87

Post by JDiculous »

fnord123 wrote: post #57
JDiculous wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I replied with my own observations regarding cultural differences based on my own personal experience, which you've sarcastically dismissed as "stereotypes". Mods: Is there a way to mute/block users?

>Mods: Is there a way to mute/block users? Great question. Coming from Mr. "I have no experience with Europeans, London, or San Francisco, but here's my opinion anyway". To contribute: I've spent a considerable time in London and the original post has left me unconvinced that the author has spent any time in London except as a tourist and living vicariously through other peoples' blog posts.

Maybe you didn't actually read my original comment that you responded to, but I never defended the article - in fact I agree, it seems to mostly be baseless stereotypes explained away by the author working in totally different type of jobs in the cities (management consulting vs. startup). I was just speaking to a single point, from the perspective of Americans vs. Europeans. If you disagree then feel free to actually address any of the points I made with a counterargument. "Hey more stereotypes!" adds nothing to the discussion and devolves the community towards being another Reddit, where people just bicker like children rather than engaging in constructive debate.

Re: Differences between San Francisco and London (2014)

#88

Post by hueving »

adrianratnapala wrote: post #63
hueving wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's ludicrous extremes like having pingpong tables and games and coffee baristas at work. This is not living "frugally." If a pingpong table and games are a major expense in your company, you're already dead. A barista is wasteful, unless he/she is serving coffee to hundreds of employees that would otherwise waste company time by leaving the office for a coffee break. As an engineer, I avoid companies like the plag…

Hmm, I work for Google now, and they are the first company I have worked for with either baristas[1] or ping-pong tables. These are definitely luxurious perks and not "basic niceties". But Google is not a frugal startup. It's a giant company offering a big complicated benefits package. [1] Free ones that is. Not counting big plants with cafes that charge market prices and seem to break even.

>These are definitely luxurious perks and not "basic niceties".

I don't think you realize how little these items cost when divided out amongst the number of employees. In particular when you consider the alternative of them leaving the Google campus for a half hour for a coffee break.

If you think catered lunches and the like are purely perks, then you drank the Kool-Aid. There is a reason they don't want you bringing free food/snacks home - it's because when you consume it in the office they are getting a benefit out of it as well.

> and they are the first company I have worked for with either baristas

It's not because Google is that much nicer. It's just because they realized early on the return on investment these things provide. This stuff is pretty much par for the course for newer tech companies in the bay.

Re: Differences between San Francisco and London (2014)

#89

Post by twelvechairs »

quicklime wrote: post #10
adwhit wrote: post #3

London is far too diverse for this comparison to make sense. It has ten times the population of San Francisco. If you think London is a particular way, it is probably because the bit of London you are in is that way.

The population of San Francisco proper is only ~800k but the population of the Bay Area as a whole is about 7 million people, which is only slightly less than Greater London's 8 million.

You are skewing the other way. A reasonable comparison may be the bay areas 7m vs the london commuter belts 14m
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