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They Used To Last 50 Years

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Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#81

Post by MakeUsersWant »

krapht wrote: post #71
MakeUsersWant wrote: post #62

I would pay for a credible source of information how long various household appliances last. (I buy by TOC, and I also value my time.) The problem is credibility. Manufacturers have an incentive to astroturf "independent" reviews. Insurerers have an incentive to rule out every common fault. And I want the data collection audited. At this point, I'm ripe for appliances-as-a-service unless a big consumer watchdog steps…

Would you? Do you subscribe to consumer reports?

I used to read Stiftung Warentest (the big consumer report in Germany). But they don't test for anything related to longevity, so I stopped. Frankly, I don't know where to look.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#82

Post by mrob »

snotrockets wrote: post #61
someone13 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't able to find anything about a fridge, but some searching found a Sears catalog from 1959: http://www.aei.org/publication/appliance-shopping-1959-vs-20... From that page, it looks like the price of the washer, adjusted for inflation to 2016, is $1756.12. A comparable washer today, from Sears, appears to be somewhere in the $400 - $600 range, or about 30% as much as it used to cost. Data for today's washers: h…

And that modern washer would use less energy, water, and need less detergent, reducing the cost-per-load.

Modern washers use the same amount of water, except now you have to manually run the extra rinse program to remove all the detergent.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#83

Post by autokad »

chrisseaton wrote: post #77
autokad wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

part of the issue, and I'm surprised the author didnt mention it, is that in the last 10 years most devices have switched from mechanical to electronic. when i bought my speed queen washer and dryer, the person selling it said they only had mechanical, which some consider an advantage. I tend to agree.

Why's mechanical better? Mechanics stick, break, become worn out. A circuit generally doesn't, does it? I know capacitors burst but they're easy enough to change. Do components like ICs ever just stop working? I would have thought solid-state would be better for endurance.

touch pads have high failure rates. if they don't go, the control board does. and if neither, the connection between them.

as for easy to change, replacing the mother board on my refrigerator would cost 600$ without installation fees. guess who bought a new refrigerator? :(

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#84

Post by lobster_johnson »

koolba wrote: post #11
prodmerc wrote: post #8

I've worked on hundreds of domestic appliances. Newer ones from any manufacturer are indeed failing more often, and are designed worse. The only explanation is that this is on purpose - just like cars or laptops or smartphones, they are designed to fail faster so you buy new ones. Planned obsolescence, plain and simple. The best appliances today, by the way, are made by Bosch/Siemens and Miele. None of the other manu…

> The best appliances today, by the way, are made by Bosch/Siemens and Miele. None of the other manufacturers come close, period. > Interestingly, the high-end machines from Bosch/Siemens made in Germany are higher quality than the ones made in Poland, China, Spain or Turkey. What's the price difference for a made in Germany Bosch/Siemens v.s. a wherever-it-comes-from Whirlpool? Does it justify shelling out the extra…

You do notice the quality difference immediately, like the difference between an iPhone and a cheap flip phone. The high-end Miele machines do look a bit like what an Apple washing machine might look like, too [1]. It's not just the design; those things feel expensive.

[1] https://m.miele.de/haushalt/waschmaschine-1566.htm?mat=07082...

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#85

Post by tomlock »

MichaelBurge wrote: post #70
tomlock wrote: post #48

Isn't this largely driven by consumer demand? The prices of appliances has dropped dramatically in the last few decades. Building a long-lasting appliance often requires even marginally more expensive materials - many of which are highlighted in this article. If consumers are primarily price sensitive at the time of purchase, they may choose the $50 cheaper appliance even if it lasts 40 years less. What I mean to sug…

Around 40%[1] of the population rents, which means 40% doesn't make the purchasing decision for many appliances. We can sanity-check your argument with this: That reasoning should predict no change in the quality of commercial appliances used in apartment complexes and laundromats, since these customers are used to making spreadsheets with a capital expenditures budget that they pay into for 30 years. [1] http://www.…

My perceptions in most coin-op laundries has been that they use different brands to consumers!

Additionally, at least in Australia, my perception has been that most renters are required to bring or purchase their own washing machines and refrigerators.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#87

Post by PuffinBlue »

lobster_johnson wrote: post #80
PuffinBlue wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but I'm not drinking the Miele Kool-Aid any longer. Maybe in the past they were great (my MIL has a 20 years old washing machine that's going great) but not the new stuff. Both my washer and dryer failed within 2 months of each other after 6 years. The dryers main board failed and price to repair was nearly £350 just for the part. The washers pump and some kind of water sensor failed simultaneously, leading to…

Are we ready to dismiss an entire brand because of one anecdote? All appliances fail at some point. We can't make a judgement based on a single data point. Reading about this stuff also makes me sad that the rest of the world have such weak consumer protections. In Norway, sellers are obligated to provide 5 years of warranty by law, and the consumer has certain rights such as the right to get a replacement if the pro…

I took my anecdata straight to the shops, jumped onto the planned obsolescence bandwagon and bought the cheapest replacement I could find.

Now I don't care if they fail in 2 or 3 years because they're the same cost as the repair of an expensive model. And like you say, all appliances fail at some point, so I'll keep fueling this horrible new world we've built for ourselves and let the manufacturers fight it out over price.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#88

Post by j3097736 »

throwawaysbdi wrote: post #76
lordnacho wrote: post #45

He mentions it in the article: It's a failure of feedback that makes this happen. If people can't get reliable information about quality, quality will not determine what they buy. Price will, and price is readily available. To get price down, you need costs down. To do that, you replace the parts with crappy parts. If feedback worked, people would know they were paying less for a less good appliance that will have mo…

Along the same lines, probably the easiest way to get quality in almost every type of product is to buy the commercial version. The people using these products are very familiar with them, so nobody sells garbage. Businesses are also generally more conservative in future projections and less price sensitive than consumers. I personally started doing this a few years ago. I even have a throwaway LLC that sounds nebulo…

>more conservative in future projections and less price sensitive than consumers.

Which means that if you need some replacement part in the future it's going to cost even more.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#89

Post by emodendroket »

throwawaysbdi wrote: post #76
lordnacho wrote: post #45

He mentions it in the article: It's a failure of feedback that makes this happen. If people can't get reliable information about quality, quality will not determine what they buy. Price will, and price is readily available. To get price down, you need costs down. To do that, you replace the parts with crappy parts. If feedback worked, people would know they were paying less for a less good appliance that will have mo…

Along the same lines, probably the easiest way to get quality in almost every type of product is to buy the commercial version. The people using these products are very familiar with them, so nobody sells garbage. Businesses are also generally more conservative in future projections and less price sensitive than consumers. I personally started doing this a few years ago. I even have a throwaway LLC that sounds nebulo…

Neat idea.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#90

Post by PuffinBlue »

j3097736 wrote: post #79
PuffinBlue wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but I'm not drinking the Miele Kool-Aid any longer. Maybe in the past they were great (my MIL has a 20 years old washing machine that's going great) but not the new stuff. Both my washer and dryer failed within 2 months of each other after 6 years. The dryers main board failed and price to repair was nearly £350 just for the part. The washers pump and some kind of water sensor failed simultaneously, leading to…

How new? 14 yo Miele washer never had an issue. >no filter cleaning for first 5 years! That's pretty disgusting for something you use to eat.

Ha! That's not quite how my model works (you just use a wash pack to clean the whole machine) but yeah, when I did finally clean the filter because a plastic straw was stuck in it it was not so bad considering.
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