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Don't Fly During Ramadan (2013)

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Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan (2013)

#81

Post by [deleted] »

dang wrote: post #67
thr3290 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you ever cross international border? My reading is just fine, read the article. He was 'fasting' before security check. And he should say it is a medical emergency, if he felt like passing out.

Please don't create many obscure throwaway accounts; we ban those. HN is a community. Anonymity is fine, but users should have some consistent identity that other users can relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community, and that would be an entirely different forum.

[deleted]

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan (2013)

#82

Post by lllllll »

phkahler wrote: post #59
Vivtek wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What better way to put him in his place than to deny him his humanity?

On thinking about it, the mild mistreatment over a period of hours could be deliberate so as to induce stress and make him crack. Hence repeatedly asking the same questions looking for him to slip up if any part of the story was fabricated.

I'm no interrogator, but that does sound like Interrogation 101, indeed. Have different people ask the same questions in different ways and when the subject is at different mental states.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan (2013)

#83

Post by hwillis »

macspoofing wrote: post #60
kefka wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sad but predictable in a world with a global movement of suicidal religious fanatics willing to murder thousands of people and cause billions in property damage. It is what is. I miss the old days too, but I wouldn't vote to water-down airport security. Say, are you referring to the Extremist Moslems, or Extremist Christians? Both have their fair share of "incidents". Perhaps you've never heard of the KKK? They're…

>Say, are you referring to the Extremist Moslems, or Extremist Christians? I was referring to 9/11, obviously, because that resulted in our modern security state. >That whole innocent until proven guilty in a court of law... It doesn't count for non-Christians, does it? I'm not sure how 'innocent until proven guilty' applies here. Are you saying we don't need any airport security because that presumes guilt? >Both ha…

'Innocent until proven guilty' means you don't get detained for six hours when you want to cancel your flight and go home.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan (2013)

#84

Post by camtarn »

leesalminen wrote: post #41
Gorbzel wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've opted out every time I traveled prior to the introduction of (opt-in, non-frequent flyer based) Precheck, so 8-10 times per year from 2010-2014(?) and never had a notable issue. As the other child comment says, rights atrophy if you don't exercise them.

If you're traveling with someone you know, one trick to ending the pat down early is to try to embarrass the agent while in a sensitive area. My favorite is "you know, he's only doing this because his girlfriend dumped him and is lonely". ~50% of the time they stop immediately and say "you're good".

Embarrassing the TSA agents might work sometimes, but some of them are also known to be vindictive and petty towards anybody who even seems like they might be challenging their authority. Given the possibility, however remote, of accidentally angering a vindictive and petty person who has power over my liberty and/or belongings... I think I'd just shut up and endure the pat-down.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan (2013)

#85

Post by icebraining »

macspoofing wrote: post #37
jtchang wrote: post #17

It's sad how much flying has changed since 9/11. Younger individuals will never realize how much easier it was to get through security. I'm sad at how he was treated and it's something that needs to be changed. It's not like treating anyone badly is going to result in more information.

>It's sad how much flying has changed since 9/11. Sad but predictable in a world with a global movement of suicidal religious fanatics willing to murder thousands of people and cause billions in property damage. It is what is. I miss the old days too, but I wouldn't vote to water-down airport security. >I'm sad at how he was treated and it's something that needs to be changed. Does it? He refused the millimeter wave…

Where did the TSA go wrong here?

They detained someone who wasn't a threat. They go wrong every single time that happens. It could be an excusable error if there was good evidence that they prevent what they were created to prevent, but they have yet to produce any.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan (2013)

#86

Post by [deleted] »

kefka wrote: post #47
macspoofing wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's sad how much flying has changed since 9/11. Sad but predictable in a world with a global movement of suicidal religious fanatics willing to murder thousands of people and cause billions in property damage. It is what is. I miss the old days too, but I wouldn't vote to water-down airport security. >I'm sad at how he was treated and it's something that needs to be changed. Does it? He refused the millimeter wave…

> Sad but predictable in a world with a global movement of suicidal religious fanatics willing to murder thousands of people and cause billions in property damage. It is what is. I miss the old days too, but I wouldn't vote to water-down airport security. Say, are you referring to the Extremist Moslems, or Extremist Christians? Both have their fair share of "incidents". Perhaps you've never heard of the KKK? They're…

[deleted]

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan (2013)

#87

Post by goodcanadian »

whack wrote: post #36
zodiakzz wrote: post #23

Or, don't contaminate your stuff with dangerous chemicals before flying.

The "dangerous chemicals" you're referring to is bed-bug spray from months ago, that happened to get on his clothes while he was changing his bed sheets. I've seen victim-blaming before, but this takes it to a whole other level. It's genuinely scary that people like you exist.

I highly doubt it was the insecticide. It is far more likely that it was some combination of the cleaning supplies used. Many household cleaners can be used in bomb making.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan (2013)

#88

Post by frickinLasers »

macspoofing wrote: post #37
jtchang wrote: post #17

It's sad how much flying has changed since 9/11. Younger individuals will never realize how much easier it was to get through security. I'm sad at how he was treated and it's something that needs to be changed. It's not like treating anyone badly is going to result in more information.

>It's sad how much flying has changed since 9/11. Sad but predictable in a world with a global movement of suicidal religious fanatics willing to murder thousands of people and cause billions in property damage. It is what is. I miss the old days too, but I wouldn't vote to water-down airport security. >I'm sad at how he was treated and it's something that needs to be changed. Does it? He refused the millimeter wave…

> I miss the old days too, but I wouldn't vote to water-down airport security

Do you mean the "security" theater with a 95% failure rate? http://abcnews.go.com/US/exclusive-undercover-dhs-tests-find...

To which the response is "cavity searches!" which will only continue to fail. http://kxan.com/2017/03/06/tsa-changing-pat-down-policy-afte...

The most effective change to security protocols was reinforcing the cockpit doors and changing how authorized people enter the cockpit. Every high-profile attack since 9/11 has not involved hijacking, has not been stopped by the TSA, but has been handled by better educated passengers and flight attendants. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/shoe-bomber-subdued-fl... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar_Farouk_Abdulmutallab#Atta...

Terrorists don't kill people on any scale worth worrying about. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2015/11/2...

The barely trained high school dropouts in blue uniforms at the TSA only serve to increase our sense of servility to a government that is increasingly afraid of its own citizens.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan (2013)

#89

Post by no_acc_recovery »

I have the full sympathy to the guy.

That said I am at loss what is it to do with Ramadan? I have not seen a single statement that his ordeal has anything to do with Ramadan but it just happened during Ramadan. Otherwise this is happening to all walks of life including white dudes (though much much less frequently). Just a catchy title?

edit: my objection is to the title not the content.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan (2013)

#90

Post by Cpoll »

dang wrote: post #67
thr3290 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you ever cross international border? My reading is just fine, read the article. He was 'fasting' before security check. And he should say it is a medical emergency, if he felt like passing out.

Please don't create many obscure throwaway accounts; we ban those. HN is a community. Anonymity is fine, but users should have some consistent identity that other users can relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community, and that would be an entirely different forum.

I think you're the only consistent identity that I recognize, because you post this a lot :)

I always have some concerns when I see it:

- Obviously controversial (but not clearly trolling) posts like thr3290's can't be made without potentially endangering the poster (we've seen people fired for public or semi-public remarks e.g. "donglegate"). I feel that this would have a chilling effect on voices that go against the common sentiment on HN.

I for one would not be comfortable using my account to make a comment like that one, which means that with your rules, my opinion would be suppressed (hypothetically speaking - I don't agree wth thr3290).

- "We ban those" isn't corroborated by any clear HN code of conduct. I (perhaps incorrectly) recall reading one at some point, but I'm currently hard-pressed to find it.

- It's not obvious to people who don't know you that you're a moderator. Your account doesn't have any clear demarcation, and you don't mention it in your profile.

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