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Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

latimes.com

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Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#81

Post by datatan »

dragonwriter wrote: post #21
datatan wrote: post #12

> Wages rise on California farms. Americans still don’t want the job No. Californians don't want the jobs. Americans live in more than just CA, I know a lot of people in CA find this hard to believe but there is a whole world outside of Sillycon Valley.

> No. Californians don't want the jobs. Americans live in more than just CA Yes, but if they wanted the jobs, they'd come to CA for them. > I know a lot of people in CA find this hard to believe but there is a whole world outside of Sillycon Valley. Most people in California—who are, after all, themsleves outside of Silicon Valley, which is a small piece of the state—are well aware of that.

> Yes, but if they wanted the jobs, they'd come to CA for them.

CA is facing a mass exodus right now. Why on Earth would anyone willingly move there with costs being what they are?

I left 10 years ago and will never go back. I can earn just as much with a cost of living being half of that in any number of states.

> Most people in California—who are, after all, themsleves outside of Silicon Valley, which is a small piece of the state—are well aware of that.

I grew up there and no they aren't aware of it. SV isn't a small part of the state. Its the entire middle of it since hardly anyone who works there can live there. They have to commute for hours from all around.

The other half is in LA county with the same delusions. The populace out side of those areas is tiny in comparison.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#82

Post by edblarney »

samirillian wrote: post #66

This argument is a bit double-edged. Okay, so it's implicitly immoral to keep immigrants out. But it's moral to hire them for jobs that Americans won't do because they're so unpleasant?

There is absolutely nothing unpleasant about working in food services.

What makes it 'unpleasant' is the destruction of the social contract that valued 'regular work', and the fulfillment of specific jobs by illegal migrants which creates a negative 'social class signalling' dynamic to the work.

It's socially destructive, and irreversible - and I believe it adds considerably to inequality.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#83

Post by datatan »

dragonwriter wrote: post #63
kerbalspacepro wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you bring up a good point. The people who need jobs and the people that need to fill jobs live in different places. American mobility is at an all time low for our technological era. How do we get the unemployed Midwesterners into Napa Valley?

> How do we get the unemployed Midwesterners into Napa Valley? Just a thought: Government loans with low interest, delayed and income-contingent repayment, and forgiveness after a set period of on-time payments for relocation expenses for unemployed adults with job offers outside of their own immediate area. Getting people to where the work is good for the public fisc, good for employers, and good for the people invo…

Why is the first instinct of every Democrat/Liberal to have Government subsidize everything? If the wages and cost of living were there people would come. Solve the problem, don't subsidize it and create more problems. Absolutely insane.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#84

Post by dropit_sphere »

hkmurakami wrote: post #68
greedo wrote: post #28

When I was younger, I worked at a McDonalds in SoCal. Almost all the employees were white teenagers. The managers were white as well. We didn't make much, just a bit above minimum wage, but we were all mostly high-school students or college students working in the summer to pay tuition. This went on until around 1984 or so, when it became much harder to hire this demographic. It wasn't as cool to work at fast food, a…

Any insight into what does In n' Out does differently? They seem to continue to attract that demographic.

Also, to piggyback: does anyone know if In-N-Out has a Disney-type dress/grooming code? Every time I go (about once a year, so I'm a bit fuzzy) I get the impression that everyone is cleancut.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#85

Post by datatan »

DoodleBuggy wrote: post #40
datatan wrote: post #12

> Wages rise on California farms. Americans still don’t want the job No. Californians don't want the jobs. Americans live in more than just CA, I know a lot of people in CA find this hard to believe but there is a whole world outside of Sillycon Valley.

I guess Georgians or Alabamans don't want the jobs either? That's weird! https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/05/17/the-law-of-... https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/alabama-law-drives-out-... Maybe they can get those senior citizens living high on the hog of Meals On Wheels to get out there and pick crops?

You're linking to articles half a decade old. Have any new data, you since the economy picked up?

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#86

Post by edblarney »

Kluny wrote: post #35
supercanuck wrote: post #4

I see a potential solution to Los Angeles's homeless population.

If I was homeless in LA, I still wouldn't work for 16 bucks an hour in the hot sun around dangerous chemicals with no benefits in the middle of nowhere.

" I still wouldn't work for 16 bucks an hour in the hot sun around dangerous chemicals with no benefits in the middle of nowhere."

You wouldn't work for what is about 20% above the national wage, to feed yourself, put a roof over your head?

If most people share your sentiment - then America is finished. You're done. It's over. I hope that's not the case.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#87

Post by diogenescynic »

greedo wrote: post #28

When I was younger, I worked at a McDonalds in SoCal. Almost all the employees were white teenagers. The managers were white as well. We didn't make much, just a bit above minimum wage, but we were all mostly high-school students or college students working in the summer to pay tuition. This went on until around 1984 or so, when it became much harder to hire this demographic. It wasn't as cool to work at fast food, a…

There are plenty of white teenagers who work at every In-N-Out I've ever been to--because they pay better. Otherwise those kids, in nicer areas like you point to, have better alternatives for minimum wage like retail. The reason the jobs you describe are being replaced by immigrants is because the wages have been stagnant or not kept up with inflation. Unskilled immigrants take labor jobs that Americans aren't really willing to do, like being a janitor or emptying septic tanks or pouring concrete in Bakersfield.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#88

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

SloughFeg wrote: post #65

The staggering low wages on Californian farms is preventing proper incentivisation to automate these processes. It reminds me of how slaves in the antibellum south prevented the area from becoming industrialized.

Kind of half-right, half-wrong, on both counts. The cotton gin, for example, was a product of industry that expanded production in the slaveholding South.

The problem with your analogy is that cash crops tend to command higher margins than foodstuffs like those grown in California. Margins are very low in agriculture, and it's a lot of hard, backbreaking, thankless work. That's before factoring in losses from climate conditions, insects, malformed food that nobody will buy and has to be thrown away...

So it's no surprise that wages are pitiful and labor supply remains low or relegated to immigrants who find toiling in the California sunshine preferable to the dangers and destitution found south of the border.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#89

Post by orf »

datatan wrote: post #77
orf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

inaccurate and pretty stupid actually.

Oh look, he used the word stupid. Obviously he must be right. I mean, such a well reason argument can't be ignored can it?

Oh look, he used a sarcastic comment as a comeback. That means all illegal immigrants are scabs! Such a well reasoned argument can't be ignored, can it?

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#90

Post by datatan »

nattaylor wrote: post #19
datatan wrote: post #12

> Wages rise on California farms. Americans still don’t want the job No. Californians don't want the jobs. Americans live in more than just CA, I know a lot of people in CA find this hard to believe but there is a whole world outside of Sillycon Valley.

The article indicates a 15-year trend of rising wages, yet we don't see American farmhands flocking to CA, so it seems like a fair headline to me.

> The article indicates a 15-year trend of rising wages, yet we don't see American farmhands flocking to CA, so it seems like a fair headline to me.

That's because you're biased. Its a small trend over a long period of time that doesn't outpace the cost of living. There is also a massive shortage of farmers thanks to big agriculture killing them all off.

Most farmers want to own the land they work. Good luck with that in CA

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