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Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

nautil.us

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Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#81

Post by chillwaves »

sverige wrote: post #65
trentmb wrote: post #48

You have a personality disorder. Please see a psychiatrist.

Oh, I have seen several psychiatrists and psychologists and counselors over the years. They're generally pleasant but useless people, though a couple of them provided perspectives and comments that were useful at the time. The biggest help has been that I no longer value social acceptance so highly. It's terrible, I know. Feel free to call me an obnoxious asshole if it helps you. Several have and I've survived.

Can you just stop with the "me me me" show for a minute?

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#82

Post by da02 »

sverige wrote: post #20

Every time I read one of these articles about genius and madness, I become smug for a little while, then I get depressed because I realize that I haven't accomplished anything noteworthy, then I'm mildly reassured because occasionally my wife will spontaneously aver (contrary to all expectation) that I am a genius, then I get distracted and start chasing some ideas, then I get depressed again because, well, shit, I s…

What are some examples of why your friend is a genius? IQ or discoveries?

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#83

Post by imranq »

throwaway90840 wrote: post #50
CuriouslyC wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say most progress, I said breakthroughs. Let's look back at some of the biggest breakthroughs in history. Newton was by all accounts a profoundly odd human being who was highly secretive and kept to himself. Faraday came from poverty and made his discoveries with no grounding in the math of the day. Einstein made his big breakthroughs as a patent clerk working on his own. Darwin was also an outsider who work…

I don't know if that is possible these days though. Ideas even from (relatively unknown) insiders are often termed "lacking in scope" and outright rejected. I can only think of one outsider having accomplished anything of value in math in the past 20 years (and even that guy wasn't really an outsider). Academia has turned into a social game that is painful, and where the rewards are terrible (unless you're in CS I su…

I guess you are referring to Yitang Zhang who created the first bound on the twin-prime conjecture. These days mathematics has become so specialized that its rather difficult to come up with anything new that is noteworthy and not already discovered. Just browsing through the graduate math library the other day and the stacks and stacks of journals dating from the 1700's and from various parts of the globe made me realize just how much math is out there.

Still, like Ian Stewart said in his "Letters to a Young Mathematician", math is an inverted pyramid - when a problem is solved, it leads to more branches to be solved. So maybe breakthroughs are possible from a determined amateur.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#84

Post by imranq »

throwaway90840 wrote: post #50
CuriouslyC wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say most progress, I said breakthroughs. Let's look back at some of the biggest breakthroughs in history. Newton was by all accounts a profoundly odd human being who was highly secretive and kept to himself. Faraday came from poverty and made his discoveries with no grounding in the math of the day. Einstein made his big breakthroughs as a patent clerk working on his own. Darwin was also an outsider who work…

I don't know if that is possible these days though. Ideas even from (relatively unknown) insiders are often termed "lacking in scope" and outright rejected. I can only think of one outsider having accomplished anything of value in math in the past 20 years (and even that guy wasn't really an outsider). Academia has turned into a social game that is painful, and where the rewards are terrible (unless you're in CS I su…

I guess you are referring to Yitang Zhang who created the first bound on the twin-prime conjecture. These days mathematics has become so specialized that its rather difficult to come up with anything new that is noteworthy and not already discovered. Just browsing through the graduate math library the other day and the stacks and stacks of journals dating from the 1700's and from various parts of the globe made me realize just how much math is out there.

Still, like Ian Stewart said in his "Letters to a Young Mathematician", math is an inverted pyramid - when a problem is solved, it leads to more branches to be solved. So maybe breakthroughs are possible from a determined amateur.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#85

Post by imranq »

throwaway90840 wrote: post #50
CuriouslyC wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say most progress, I said breakthroughs. Let's look back at some of the biggest breakthroughs in history. Newton was by all accounts a profoundly odd human being who was highly secretive and kept to himself. Faraday came from poverty and made his discoveries with no grounding in the math of the day. Einstein made his big breakthroughs as a patent clerk working on his own. Darwin was also an outsider who work…

I don't know if that is possible these days though. Ideas even from (relatively unknown) insiders are often termed "lacking in scope" and outright rejected. I can only think of one outsider having accomplished anything of value in math in the past 20 years (and even that guy wasn't really an outsider). Academia has turned into a social game that is painful, and where the rewards are terrible (unless you're in CS I su…

I guess you are referring to Yitang Zhang who created the first bound on the twin-prime conjecture. These days mathematics has become so specialized that its rather difficult to come up with anything new that is noteworthy and not already discovered. Just browsing through the graduate math library the other day and the stacks and stacks of journals dating from the 1700's and from various parts of the globe made me realize just how much math is out there.

Still, like Ian Stewart said in his "Letters to a Young Mathematician", math is an inverted pyramid - when a problem is solved, it leads to more branches to be solved. So maybe breakthroughs are possible from a determined amateur.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#86

Post by dkarapetyan »

hyperpallium wrote: post #79
beachy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent pedantry.

Given the value of all possible viewpoints, that the expected value of "a different viewpoint" is 80 IQ points (i.e. moronic) is probably wildly optimistic. Most viewpoints aren't helpful.

You indeed can't average a bunch of viewpoints and get anything good out of it. That's why Alan Kay usually has that vector space example where "different viewpoint" means giving yourself a vector out of the existing "plane of viewpoints".

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#87

Post by da02 »

noir_lord wrote: post #49
sverige wrote: post #20

Every time I read one of these articles about genius and madness, I become smug for a little while, then I get depressed because I realize that I haven't accomplished anything noteworthy, then I'm mildly reassured because occasionally my wife will spontaneously aver (contrary to all expectation) that I am a genius, then I get distracted and start chasing some ideas, then I get depressed again because, well, shit, I s…

When my GF tells me I'm really clever I just say "not really, I have a good memory and read a lot." I'm not proud of my intelligence, why would I be? (much of it) is determined by genetics and the environment you grew up in and I had little control over either of those. I also point out she is the one who speaks 3 languages fluently, has a degree in finance and qualified as a shipbroker, I just explain things really…

How did you two meet? At work?

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#88

Post by da02 »

sverige wrote: post #61
mtdewcmu wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to have a fixation on the idea of genius. You are susceptible to momentarily convincing yourself​ that you're a genius, which is followed by feelings of inadequacy. Why don't you try to put this genius idea out of your head? Convince yourself that you are probably not a genius, but that's ok because you do your best. You may have to grieve for a bit as the loss of your genius fantasy sinks in. If you feel a…

Oh, how many times have I done this. I think it is a side-effect of growing up in a time when the idea of genius was especially promoted, and also of being raised by parents who were teachers and who thought geniuses were important. Thankfully, I have a good counterbalance of extensive readings in philosophy and theology. Now, for a real sense of loss, two days ago the grandmother of my best childhood friend died. Sh…

I would recommend Void Linux if Manjaro doesn't please you.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#89

Post by hyperpallium »

sverige wrote: post #20

Every time I read one of these articles about genius and madness, I become smug for a little while, then I get depressed because I realize that I haven't accomplished anything noteworthy, then I'm mildly reassured because occasionally my wife will spontaneously aver (contrary to all expectation) that I am a genius, then I get distracted and start chasing some ideas, then I get depressed again because, well, shit, I s…

There's that TED talk about an older meaning of "genius" is something that visits you, like a muse, and not something that you are. It's just up to you to be prepared when inspiration strikes, to notice it, and follow up on it.

Noteworthiness is also very dependent on context. If you're too late, you're not a genius, even though you came up with it independently... how can what other people do affect your brain tissue? It can't; genius isn't about your brain, but the context.

Geniuses are like prospectors who get intrinsic credit for striking it rich... but they didn't put the gold there. However, it is right to celebrate them, to encourage prospecting...

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#90

Post by hyperpallium »

dkarapetyan wrote: post #86
hyperpallium wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the value of all possible viewpoints, that the expected value of "a different viewpoint" is 80 IQ points (i.e. moronic) is probably wildly optimistic. Most viewpoints aren't helpful.

You indeed can't average a bunch of viewpoints and get anything good out of it. That's why Alan Kay usually has that vector space example where "different viewpoint" means giving yourself a vector out of the existing "plane of viewpoints".

I think averaging over all such vectors out of the usual plane would have similar value.
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