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Happiness is earning $60,000/year

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Re: Happiness is earning $60,000/year

#81

Post by nandemo »

jack7890 wrote: post #41

Even if you believe Kahneman (I happen to), the $60k number is probably illusory for most Americans, since location is important. In NYC, perhaps the number is $95k; in rural Arkansas, perhaps it's $25k. I'd love to see data on how the specific "ideal" income level varies by location.

For what is worth, the average yearly income for salarymen in Tokyo is about 6 million yen (~=U$65k).

http://nensyu-labo.com/ken_tokyo.htm (In Japanese)

I think NYC's cost of living is not that much higher than Tokyo's. However, as many pointed out in this thread, people care a lot about their income relative to their neighbors. So it's plausible that New Yorkers would require a much higher income to be content, compared to Tokyoites.

Re: Happiness is earning $60,000/year

#82

Post by mistermann »

Nwallins wrote: post #79
mistermann wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I think the key to the $60K happiness threshold is that it represents being in the top 20% income bracket." And another caveat (financially), to those who live in regions where the housing bubble has not yet popped, is: did you buy a house before the bubble started? In most of Canada (and Australia and a few other places) where the bubble is still thriving, the #1 most important financial issue for 95+% of people is…

I upvoted by accident. You should invest where you see value. Otherwise you just sound envious and bitter.

Ya, maybe I didn't express that properly, I AM bitter! I'm bitter that my government is using my tax dollars to play with interest rates allowing a real estate bubble to exist in the first place.

In a normal market, one should be able to reasonable purchase a home based on local wages. Since central bankers have decided to counteract the actions of the normal business cycle, I am now stuck in a 10-20 year battle while they hand out free money ($ below the cost of inflation) waiting until they find they are wrong yet again.

So am I bitter? Damn right I am.

Re: Happiness is earning $60,000/year

#83

Post by mistermann »

Nwallins wrote: post #79
mistermann wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I think the key to the $60K happiness threshold is that it represents being in the top 20% income bracket." And another caveat (financially), to those who live in regions where the housing bubble has not yet popped, is: did you buy a house before the bubble started? In most of Canada (and Australia and a few other places) where the bubble is still thriving, the #1 most important financial issue for 95+% of people is…

I upvoted by accident. You should invest where you see value. Otherwise you just sound envious and bitter.

Not to mention homebuyers never had to worry about these things when the market set prices, but now when the central banks set the price of money, all hell breaks loose. (By this I mean 40% to 70% swings in real estate prices, maybe you think thats ok, maybe the people buying overvalued real estate should have "seen value")

Re: Happiness is earning $60,000/year

#84

Post by flipbrad »

rokhayakebe wrote: post #74
Perceval wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because income is heavily skewed by outliers (e.g. Bill Gates), it makes more sense to look at the median income alongside the average income. Median household income with 1.35 earners and 2.57 household members is $44,389. That's less than the per capita average of $48,000, and it's spread over 2.5 people. Turns out that about 70% of the households in the United States are going to be below $60,000. Divided by the n…

Then again at $60k for one person it may include the ability to afford a decent home + car etc...hence by the time the second or third person rolls in the extra cost to achieve that happiness is not $60k per person. It could be even lower than $30k.

or it makes no difference. The happiness trade-off from having the little feller around, knowing you sacrificed your next car upgrade, might make it totally worth it; but if you weren't at 60k, the sacrifices would be too large.

it's possible then that 60k is just the number you need to be earning, whatever your costs base (drugs, gambling and other habits; and disabilities/chronic illnesses aside)

Re: Happiness is earning $60,000/year

#85

Post by dandelany »

Aetius wrote: post #58
ruslan wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I had that wealth I would still keep coding... just for fun and for the sake of coding! Probably I would focus on something extraordinary, like robotics or AI.

Robotics or AI, while respectable, are not extraordinary. To do extraordinary work, you'll probably have to go into biology, although I'm too uneducated to know which subfield. From afar, computational and synthetic biology look very promising. So if I got rich, that's probably where I'd put my efforts.

Wow, it seems a little presumptuous of you to believe you have the foresight to determine which fields are extraordinary and which are simply respectable, don't you think?

Re: Happiness is earning $60,000/year

#86

Post by Aetius »

dandelany wrote: post #85
Aetius wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Robotics or AI, while respectable, are not extraordinary. To do extraordinary work, you'll probably have to go into biology, although I'm too uneducated to know which subfield. From afar, computational and synthetic biology look very promising. So if I got rich, that's probably where I'd put my efforts.

Wow, it seems a little presumptuous of you to believe you have the foresight to determine which fields are extraordinary and which are simply respectable, don't you think?

You're right. It is very presumptuous,almost to the point of pretension. I would change the post if I could.

I don't actually know what field will be extraordinary and which will be simply respectable. However, I can understand AI and robotics, and from what I've seen, there isn't extraordinary work being done (please feel free to prove otherwise). There are only incremental advances being made that improve our lives by small steps.

What I can't understand is biology; it is unimaginably complex, which is why is why now I'm kind of wishing I had majored in it rather than computer science.

Re: Happiness is earning $60,000/year

#87

Post by dagw »

SamAtt wrote: post #38

I've never agreed with this theory. He seems to frame things in terms of irresponsible living and under that criteria I agree. If the difference between 60k and 90k is just "a little more “entertainment” and maybe some bigger stuff" to you than his theory works out. But to the person who invests that extra 30k a year and gets to retire at 50 instead of 70 I think the happiness difference is pretty significant. I'd be…

I'd bet the 55 year old who gets to spend his days as he wishes is much happier than the 55 year old still working his 9 to 5 job.

My dad for example has been pushing his retirement forward for several years now because, even though he's looking forward to the free time and has the money to comfortably retire, he loves what he does 9-5 and can't stop thinking about all the awesome projects he'll miss out on if he leaves.

Then there is the dark side of the equation where people retire after a lifetime of work, come home, realize that they have nothing to spend their days on and their life has no purpose any more, and promptly die.

Re: Happiness is earning $60,000/year

#88

Post by potatolicious »

dagw wrote: post #87
SamAtt wrote: post #38

I've never agreed with this theory. He seems to frame things in terms of irresponsible living and under that criteria I agree. If the difference between 60k and 90k is just "a little more “entertainment” and maybe some bigger stuff" to you than his theory works out. But to the person who invests that extra 30k a year and gets to retire at 50 instead of 70 I think the happiness difference is pretty significant. I'd be…

I'd bet the 55 year old who gets to spend his days as he wishes is much happier than the 55 year old still working his 9 to 5 job. My dad for example has been pushing his retirement forward for several years now because, even though he's looking forward to the free time and has the money to comfortably retire, he loves what he does 9-5 and can't stop thinking about all the awesome projects he'll miss out on if he lea…

> "ome home, realize that they have nothing to spend their days on and their life has no purpose any more, and promptly die."

I honestly wouldn't mind that. In my ideal world I'd work till I drop - such would be how much I enjoy what I do. As I get older I imagine I would want to scale back how much of work I'd do as other things take over (children, grandchildren, etc), but I doubt I'd ever give this up altogether.

Re: Happiness is earning $60,000/year

#89

Post by barrkel »

neilc wrote: post #78
barrkel wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you may be overestimating the benefits of retirement in practice. Many retired people feel directionless and purposeless, and die sooner. By your argument, unemployed people living off the dole ought to be very happy, but it's actually depressing.

Living off the dole is filled with stress. If you had a reliable, steady income and the health to enjoy it, I think most people would be much happier than they are working a typical job. Living off the dole is also not something considered socially respectable, whereas early retirement is widely accepted.

What I'm objecting to is this concept which seems to exist in this thread that work is a drudge, and being relieved from it is a net positive.

I think it's simply not true. Quite apart from enjoying your work, there's the social aspect, it gets you out of the house, gives you a reason to get up in the morning, you incrementally work towards longer-term goals, etc. Retirement in leisure has none of these things, and I strongly believe you'll find the bloom wears off the rose quite quickly if you don't find some other form of work to do, even if you don't choose to call it work, or aren't paid for it.

I believe a man who retires at 70 will be happier than one who retires at 50, and he'll live longer too (leaving aside those who die between 50 and 70).

Re: Happiness is earning $60,000/year

#90

Post by ruslan »

Aetius wrote: post #86
dandelany wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, it seems a little presumptuous of you to believe you have the foresight to determine which fields are extraordinary and which are simply respectable, don't you think?

You're right. It is very presumptuous,almost to the point of pretension. I would change the post if I could. I don't actually know what field will be extraordinary and which will be simply respectable. However, I can understand AI and robotics, and from what I've seen, there isn't extraordinary work being done (please feel free to prove otherwise). There are only incremental advances being made that improve our lives…

There are many extraordinary things have been done in robotics in recent, and a lot many to be done yet. Just try to "teach" a self-balancing biped to run. In theory it's possible to run over walls and ceiling in your room (if you run fast enough), but damn hard to implement. I admire what Anybots and Big Dog guys do.
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