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AMD’s $499 Ryzen 7 1800X Beats $1700 i7 6950X with 1-Click OC on Air Cooling

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81–90 of 209 posts

Re: AMD’s $499 Ryzen 7 1800X Beats $1700 i7 6950X with 1-Click OC on Air Cooling

#81
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no free lunch. Moving to quad channel incurs more costs in pins, mobo traces, etc.. It's targeted product development.

Nah, it's just artificial limits. Would totally just work if they flipped a bit in the processor. /s Less sarcastically, what do people need >64 gigs for on a consumer desktop? I'm a dev and work on a pretty memory intensive service and don't need 128 gigs. Holding an entire double layer blu-ray in memory would only require 50 gigs.

Machine learning model training. A large buffer of data waiting to be trained speeds up training. Especially with training on the GPU the biggest bottle neck is reading the data from disk.

Re: AMD’s $499 Ryzen 7 1800X Beats $1700 i7 6950X with 1-Click OC on Air Cooling

#83
post #73
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about $2000/week to rent an IQ180. If you can afford the rental price, you can afford a computer to process the images.

That still doesn't follow. Having a certain amount of money doesn't imply that you have even more money, nor that you want to spend more than is truly necessary.

Diminishing returns on increasingly exponentially-priced cameras means that if you're paying for the very top tier, value is no longer a consideration.

Your average flagship smartphone camera is a Toyota Camry. It gets the job done. Upgrade to a high-end bridge camera or entry-level DSLR (phones have killed the bargain point-and-shoot market), and you're looking at something like a basic 328i; already more car than most people will ever need. Upgrading to the top end of the 35mm DSLR market is a bit like an AMG Mercedes; no one is going to make eyes at it unless they're looking for it, but it can competently handle pretty much any situation that you might normally encounter.

Going to medium format is like buying a supercar. Yes, it is better than every other option, but it's also an exercise in vanity- you don't buy a supercar because you need to accelerate the way a supercar does on a regular basis, but because there might be a situation where you need one, maybe two, of its advantages over the Mercedes.

So where does that leave the IQ180? It's a Bugatti Veyron Grand Sport Vitesse- a $2M exercise in masturbation that can only be used to its full capacity if you're willing to pay $42,000 for a set of tires that will burn through after 10 minutes at top speed.

No one buying a Veyron will hesitate to pay for the tires, because if you're buying a Veyron, there's no cost/benefit analysis that would keep you from it. No one buying an IQ180 will shy away from a computer to take advantage of its capabilities.

Re: AMD’s $499 Ryzen 7 1800X Beats $1700 i7 6950X with 1-Click OC on Air Cooling

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel could just drop their prices, but it looks like Intel will [also] rush out their 8th-gen stuff this year, even though it's still on 14mm: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/02/intel-coffee-lake-14...

It will be a very interesting match to witness. Intel will have to act under pressure while saying goodbye to a huge sum of money.

Just saw this, looks like Intel is already dropping prices significantly: http://wccftech.com/intel-amd-price-war-ryzen-processors/

If you were on the verge of getting a 7700k or something, it looks like now is the time to buy (or give Ryzen a shot!).

Personally I'm willing to pay a bit more to give Ryzen a chance, because hopefully it will lead to sustained competition in this space again. A $500 8-core CPU is more than I need for gaming right now, but given that my 2500k has been great for 6 years, I don't have a problem spending $2k on a PC every 4-6 years for really great performance.

Re: AMD’s $499 Ryzen 7 1800X Beats $1700 i7 6950X with 1-Click OC on Air Cooling

#85
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, it's just artificial limits. Would totally just work if they flipped a bit in the processor. /s Less sarcastically, what do people need >64 gigs for on a consumer desktop? I'm a dev and work on a pretty memory intensive service and don't need 128 gigs. Holding an entire double layer blu-ray in memory would only require 50 gigs.

Machine learning model training. A large buffer of data waiting to be trained speeds up training. Especially with training on the GPU the biggest bottle neck is reading the data from disk.

Forgive me, but is training ML models really a common consumer need?

Re: AMD’s $499 Ryzen 7 1800X Beats $1700 i7 6950X with 1-Click OC on Air Cooling

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 24-bit (...) uncompressed audio Do you really need this much headroom, e.g. for producing music professionally? (If so, why are you arguing over the $50-100 extra for a Xeon?) Because for listening, it's proven fact that even professional musicians and mixing engineers using equipment costing >$100k can't tell 24 bit from 16 bit in a proper double-blind A/B test. Presumably you use a high sample rate as well (maybe…

Most people who believe this is a proven fact have never worked in pro audio and know a lot less about it than they assume. While people here like to quote that infamous looks-like-science-but-isn't Xiph video, the reality is that a lot of professional engineers absolutely can hear the difference. If you have good studio monitors and you know what to listen for the difference between a 24-bit master and a downsampled…

There are professional audio "engineers" who claim they can hear the difference in the types of audio cables used. And when when challenge them on it, rather than defend it, or demonstrate it, they'll just name-drop musicians they've worked with... most of which are producing albums these days that sound like garbage because of the loudness war.

Their words mean very little.

I totally get going for 24 bit over 16 for the noise floor, though.

Re: AMD’s $499 Ryzen 7 1800X Beats $1700 i7 6950X with 1-Click OC on Air Cooling

#87
post #72
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What camera is capturing 16GB photos? An IQ180 captures 80 megapixels but the images are something like 500 MB each. All of your hypothetical examples are also for very niche high-resource usage professionals. It's absurd that these cases need extremely high memory support from consumer processors. Intel is not obligated to subsidize anyone, especially not people who can afford to pay for high end systems.

I think he meant 16GB memory used when editing. Not the filesize.

Same question still applies.

Re: AMD’s $499 Ryzen 7 1800X Beats $1700 i7 6950X with 1-Click OC on Air Cooling

#88
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, the cheaper ASUS boards are listed as supporting ECC, according to this page: http://geizhals.eu/?cmp=1582178&cmp=1582183&cmp=1582185&cmp=...

This page does not match the information given on the ASUS website: https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/PRIME-B350M-A/specifica... As such all we can say for now in my opinion: inconclusive

More history in this which supports your inconclusive conclusion: https://community.amd.com/thread/210870

I'm not holding my breath for ECC support. My thinking is that if it could run ECC RAM with the actual corrections enabled, they'd be talked about that as a selling point. I'd sure like it with the 32GB I have going into this build, but I just went with "G.SKILL F4-3000C15D-32GTZ TridentZ Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3000 (PC4 24000)" for now, with the idea that I'll get a second of the same kit in a couple of years when it's half the price of today.

Re: AMD’s $499 Ryzen 7 1800X Beats $1700 i7 6950X with 1-Click OC on Air Cooling

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 24-bit (...) uncompressed audio Do you really need this much headroom, e.g. for producing music professionally? (If so, why are you arguing over the $50-100 extra for a Xeon?) Because for listening, it's proven fact that even professional musicians and mixing engineers using equipment costing >$100k can't tell 24 bit from 16 bit in a proper double-blind A/B test. Presumably you use a high sample rate as well (maybe…

For editing, you want to use the highest possible starting bandwidth (sampling rate * bit width) because every intermediate edit and calculation leads to round-off and other errors. You also need them to be WAVs or some other raw format since you cause minor errors every time you compress + decompress something, not to mention the performance loss. It's the same rationale for doing calculations in full 80-bit or 64-b…

Would using fixed-point arithmetic[1] help with these issues at all?

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed-point_arithmetic

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