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Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

militarytimes.com

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Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#81

Post by starik36 »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #18
educar wrote: post #5

If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. Brainwashed by years and years of media programming. One man's terrorist is another man's hero. The U.S routinely bombs other sovereign countries and this is show cased as a "hero" activity. If the bombed people retaliate, they are terrorists. The truth is not black/white. Same way U.S data surveil…

The older I get the more interesting and sensible Chomsky gets. Until a few years ago I was perceiving him as boring and monotone and now I am seeing a fierce warrior of truth* holding language as his weapon. This 9 min. excerpt on propaganda terms in the Media is especially appropriate. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vmoXze-Higc *I don't mean some objective truth out there but a viewpoint which is rooted in his very…

I have gone the opposite direction on him. I think the turning point was the debate with Dershowitz on Israeli/Arab problems. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ux4JU_sbB0

He seems to speak in broad generalities, rather than getting down into the details. I've reached a point where I need to hear the down and gritty rather than airy statements.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#82

Post by wallace_f »

3131s wrote: post #41
csallen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. People don't know the half of it, and in my experience, they don't want to know. It's comforting to feel like the good guys. The media is complicit, in that it intentionally leaves out relevant facts that might make us look bad. For example, take Iran. In 1953, we overthrew their democratically-e…

> Our "defense" of Vietnam. And most people only think of Vietnam itself regarding that conflict, yet Cambodia and Laos were absolutely decimated too. The US dropped more tons of bombs on Laos and Cambodia individually than the combined amount dropped by the allied forces in WWII. There are still 80 million unexploded bombs in the Laos countryside. Landmines sold by the US and China to the Lon Nol government and the…

That's awful. I thought I knew of a lot of the "unreported war crimes" we've done, but I did not know of this.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#84

Post by [deleted] »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #18
educar wrote: post #5

If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. Brainwashed by years and years of media programming. One man's terrorist is another man's hero. The U.S routinely bombs other sovereign countries and this is show cased as a "hero" activity. If the bombed people retaliate, they are terrorists. The truth is not black/white. Same way U.S data surveil…

The older I get the more interesting and sensible Chomsky gets. Until a few years ago I was perceiving him as boring and monotone and now I am seeing a fierce warrior of truth* holding language as his weapon. This 9 min. excerpt on propaganda terms in the Media is especially appropriate. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vmoXze-Higc *I don't mean some objective truth out there but a viewpoint which is rooted in his very…

[deleted]

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#85

Post by chinathrow »

starik36 wrote: post #75
csallen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. People don't know the half of it, and in my experience, they don't want to know. It's comforting to feel like the good guys. The media is complicit, in that it intentionally leaves out relevant facts that might make us look bad. For example, take Iran. In 1953, we overthrew their democratically-e…

I am not sure what your point is in bringing Iran, maybe its to blame the US for the current situation there. Keep in mind that 1953 was over 60 years ago. To keep on blaming US for acts committed that long ago and apply to today...well, it's ridiculous.

I strongly disagree: it's not ridiculous at all when it comes to war crimes or crimes against humanity.

Also, Iran was one example, the list of U.S. aggressions against sovereign nations without U.N. mandate goes on up to very recent times (Syria).

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#86

Post by csallen »

starik36 wrote: post #75
csallen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. People don't know the half of it, and in my experience, they don't want to know. It's comforting to feel like the good guys. The media is complicit, in that it intentionally leaves out relevant facts that might make us look bad. For example, take Iran. In 1953, we overthrew their democratically-e…

I am not sure what your point is in bringing Iran, maybe its to blame the US for the current situation there. Keep in mind that 1953 was over 60 years ago. To keep on blaming US for acts committed that long ago and apply to today...well, it's ridiculous.

My point isn't that the US is to blame for all the bad that happens in the world. There are plenty of places that are worse than we are. However, we act as if that absolves us of all wrongdoing, which is plainly absurd. I would like to counter that notion.

In addition, we simply don't acknowledge what we've done. Our media won't report on it. I would like to see an end to this mass propaganda and willful ignorance.

Finally, keep in mind that we only know what comes out during congressional hearings, via FOIA requests, and via heavily-redacted releases of classified documents. In other words, we only know the tip of the iceberg. This is not an accident. The US government makes heavy use of classification, often more to keep the public in the dark than to protect sensitive info from foreign enemies. Given these tactics, you can't fault citizens for relying on what information they have access to. And of course, there's no reason to assume that everything has magically changed and we are now angels.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#87

Post by mulmen »

starik36 wrote: post #75
csallen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. People don't know the half of it, and in my experience, they don't want to know. It's comforting to feel like the good guys. The media is complicit, in that it intentionally leaves out relevant facts that might make us look bad. For example, take Iran. In 1953, we overthrew their democratically-e…

I am not sure what your point is in bringing Iran, maybe its to blame the US for the current situation there. Keep in mind that 1953 was over 60 years ago. To keep on blaming US for acts committed that long ago and apply to today...well, it's ridiculous.

How is it ridiculous when our actions then and since have consistently destabilized the region? Our actions then are still felt today.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#88

Post by macns »

starik36 wrote: post #75
csallen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. People don't know the half of it, and in my experience, they don't want to know. It's comforting to feel like the good guys. The media is complicit, in that it intentionally leaves out relevant facts that might make us look bad. For example, take Iran. In 1953, we overthrew their democratically-e…

I am not sure what your point is in bringing Iran, maybe its to blame the US for the current situation there. Keep in mind that 1953 was over 60 years ago. To keep on blaming US for acts committed that long ago and apply to today...well, it's ridiculous.

What? If 1953 looks ridiculous to you, the cruise missile on a passenger flight was in 1988!

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#89

Post by strainer »

jessriedel wrote: post #54
strainer wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>unless the Army was also failing to include it in something like "groundstrikes". The article includes multiple statements from army sources which indicate no such figures are published. If someone could turn them up, that would be something.

The point is that if there was also a category released to the general public called "groundstrikes" (or better yet "everything but airstrikes") and the Army was not including attack helicopter mission in that either, then there would be a clear intent to decieve. Likewise if these missions were not contributing to public tallies like "total casualties". But so long as it's public knowledge that the Army has large ca…

They already stated 'unequivocally' there is no intent to deceive --its just a complete accident then that it takes a lone journalists inquiries to clarify that for over a decade the officially quoted figures of military strikes have been misunderstood. Its not really about damning the military, they do what they are ordered to do - its about realistic accounting of what they have been ordered to do.

*and of course, not being able to trust what we are told about what they are doing

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#90

Post by DanBC »

jahnu wrote: post #72
3131s wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our "defense" of Vietnam. And most people only think of Vietnam itself regarding that conflict, yet Cambodia and Laos were absolutely decimated too. The US dropped more tons of bombs on Laos and Cambodia individually than the combined amount dropped by the allied forces in WWII. There are still 80 million unexploded bombs in the Laos countryside. Landmines sold by the US and China to the Lon Nol government and the…

What's even sadder is with a few billion much of that uxo could be cleaned up but they struggle for basic funding to clear some each year. In my mind that displays there is little remorse for past actions.

Here' an example of landmine clearance in Cambodia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWfNZoXr6rQ

(From CmdrFred's comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12187512#12190918)

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