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Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

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Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#81

Post by lowbloodsugar »

ansy wrote: post #42

Could H-1B be more effective? Yes. It could definitely be more fair to the visa holder and do a better job of attracting and retaining the most skilled workers. But I also think it's totally wrong to say we don't have a technology labor shortage. The best evidence of this are the salary numbers for people with math and science degrees. It's not because physics and math suddenly got more valuable. It's because tech is…

There is a luxury yacht shortage. I say this because I want to run a luxury yacht business and I'm unable to buy a luxury yacht for the $10 that I have in my pocket.

There is a Ferrari shortage because I want to start a "Uber With Ferraris" business, and I'm unable to buy a Ferrari with the $10 that I have in my pocket.

There is a developer shortage because I want to start a software business and I am unable to buy a developer with the $10 that I have in my pocket.

There are no shortages. There is capitalism and the market. If salaries rise so that My Brilliant Idea Co is unable to hire a software developer, that just means that My Brilliant Idea Co isn't valued by VCs or Angels such that they can afford to hire the necessary people.

My company was unable to hire people. When it increased offers by 40%, suddenly it could hire people.

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#82

Post by cujo »

rhapsodic wrote: post #75

The hubris and self-righteousness of SV billionaire bully-boys has reached the point where I'll favor practically anything that takes them down a peg. I'd love to see the Republican controlled federal government treat them the way the Democrats have treated, for example, the gun and coal industries. If a gun manufacturer should be held liable for the results of people misusing a gun, then why shouldn't Airbnb be held…

>If a gun manufacturer should be held liable for the results of people misusing a gun

They aren't.

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#83

Post by darkarmani »

program_whiz wrote: post #34

Ok what's the suprise here? If you give companies a chance to get cheaper "mostly the same" labor without a downside, or maybe with the upside they can't leave, they're going to take it. That's why I do believe globalization and the availability of huge amounts of cheap unregulated labor does hurt American jobs and industry. Its not xenophobia, its just common sense. I think if you look past any ideas of racism, xeno…

> That's why I do believe globalization and the availability of huge amounts of cheap unregulated labor does hurt American jobs and industry. Its not xenophobia, its just common sense.

I'm not sure what you mean by unregulated labor, but the bigger problem in this specific case is not the foreign worker, but the fact that they don't have freedom of movement once hired. If they could transfer job easily, companies would have to pay closer to market salaries.

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#84

Post by seppin »

gadders wrote: post #37
zzleeper wrote: post #12

> Their lobbyists claim there is a “talent shortage” among Americans and thus that the industry needs more of such work visas. This is patently false There is no way SV would have grown to what it is now without foreign talent. So the shortage has been real for the last 30+ years. Not sure why this point is still controversial. > most Silicon Valley firms sponsor their H-1B workers, who hold a temporary visa, for U.S…

>> There is no way SV would have grown to what it is now without foreign talent. So the shortage has been real for the last 30+ years. I think the key thing is that there is a shortage of talent at a price they are willing to pay .

> I think the key thing is that there is a shortage of talent at a price they are willing to pay.

Exactly. I know several SV companies that refuse to pay software engineers over 80-100k, and they complain about not being able to hire.

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#85

Post by rhapsodic »

okreallywtf wrote: post #80
rhapsodic wrote: post #75

The hubris and self-righteousness of SV billionaire bully-boys has reached the point where I'll favor practically anything that takes them down a peg. I'd love to see the Republican controlled federal government treat them the way the Democrats have treated, for example, the gun and coal industries. If a gun manufacturer should be held liable for the results of people misusing a gun, then why shouldn't Airbnb be held…

So by that you mean, propose changes but then never have any of them implemented in any way and be blocked entirely by an obstructionist opposition party? I'm not sure thats what you really want.

Would you mind phrasing your question a little more clearly, please?

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#86

Post by wnevets »

rhapsodic wrote: post #75

The hubris and self-righteousness of SV billionaire bully-boys has reached the point where I'll favor practically anything that takes them down a peg. I'd love to see the Republican controlled federal government treat them the way the Democrats have treated, for example, the gun and coal industries. If a gun manufacturer should be held liable for the results of people misusing a gun, then why shouldn't Airbnb be held…

>treat them the way the Democrats have treated, for example, the gun and coal industries.

You want more strongly written letters?

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#87

Post by mixmastamyk »

throwawaydbfif wrote: post #36
yummyfajitas wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every tech company I've worked at rejects well over 90% of their applicants and has an interview process that would be considered insane in almost any other field. Joel Spolsky explains why this does not imply what you think it implies. http://www.inc.com/magazine/20070501/column-guest.html tl;dr; Imagine 1 low quality developer who applies to 9 places and gets rejected. There's also 1 high quality developer who appl…

Inc.com is a really bad source for such information... As if they would be expected to be neutral in such a situation. If this was true you would see it across professions and at every level of position, yet it's something fairly unique to software development.

Indeed, thanks to Spolsky & co getting a scripting job entails a three ring circus of burdens and hazing to get an offer. They are looking for any excuse to not hire you rather than trying to fill a position.

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#88

Post by drewg123 »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #61
jarsin wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Total BS. I have seen this first hand both as a hiring manager and as an applicant. I have been rejected from jobs based on totally insane interview questions that have nothing to do with the job. In one case I interviewed at 2 competitors. One gave me nothing but trick whiteboard questions, the other emphasized my experience and gave me a real world interview. I was rejected by the whiteboard company and hired by th…

You bring up another reason why 90% of applications might be rejected: false negatives. Consider a hiring filter which rejects 90% of good applicants and 99% of bad applicants. In such a world, consider a population of 10 good applicants. These 10 applicants will go on 100 interviews, be rejected on 90 of them and each will find a job. So in this world where every applicant finds a job , you still get 9/10 applicatio…

I think this is probably close to being the case. The Google interview is an "any given Sunday" thing, with a huge amount of luck involved as to choice of interviewer and interview questions. I suspect that a person who got an offer, if forced to re-interview, would fail 9/10 times.

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#89

Post by halflings »

relics443 wrote: post #59

I think an issue lost in the discussion is that citizens are losing jobs because of this. I'm all for the plight of the immigrant, but as an American, my concern is first and foremost with my fellow countrymen.

Why would Americans lose jobs over this? I can understand the "immigrant tech workers are the reason we don't have higher salaries" argument, but not why somebody would actually lose their job over this (since salaries have to be the same, and if you accept that salary you would cost less to the company since you don't require paperwork, lawyers, relocation)
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