Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The World’s Most Innovative Economies

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 122 posts

Re: The World’s Most Innovative Economies

#81

Post by big_youth »

kalleboo wrote: post #35
demonshalo wrote: post #3

This makes 0 sense to my heavily biased brain. As a Swede that is keeping a close eye on the domestic market, I can't find that many "innovations" taking place in most commercial sectors. R&D means quack-all if you cant translate that research into good and services that the citizens of said country can take advantage of.

Everything is relative. How many other countries had systems like BankID, Swish, doing their taxes online as well as with Skatteverket, etc etc when those came out? how many of those countries have populations smaller than Sweden? How much innovation comes out of Ohio which has a larger population?

It was not recent but a century ago Ohio came up with chewing gum, light bulbs, the first gas powered auto, flight, the, the first vacuum, and founded the first coed and interracial college.

A little more innovate than online banking stuff.

https://www.timetoast.com/timelines/technological-innovation...

Re: The World’s Most Innovative Economies

#82

Post by cylinder »

fornever wrote: post #50
OskarS wrote: post #15

>The Swedes themselves promote an atmosphere of great personal ambition — unlike some European neighbors that emphasize the collective — and that’s a boon to innovation, he said. >“In the culture, people are super individualistic — this means that people have ideas and are very interested in pursuing them in this way in order to become wealthy,” said Henrekson. This is very true, and a thing which is often misunderst…

While I agree with your overall point I unfortunately don't think your characterization of Sweden is true anymore. Your education prospects now depend on which school you go to, especially with blatant grade inflation. My friends are putting their kids in queue for elite elementary school the day after they are born. Even if you can make it to college the traditional route you'll have trouble finding an apartment and…

As always rapidly increasing population decreases quality of life for all except those already established at the top of the pyramid.

Re: The World’s Most Innovative Economies

#83

Post by cesarbs »

OskarS wrote: post #15

>The Swedes themselves promote an atmosphere of great personal ambition — unlike some European neighbors that emphasize the collective — and that’s a boon to innovation, he said. >“In the culture, people are super individualistic — this means that people have ideas and are very interested in pursuing them in this way in order to become wealthy,” said Henrekson. This is very true, and a thing which is often misunderst…

I'm confused. I thought Jantelagen (mentioned in a sibling comment) was all about not promoting oneself above the collective. Maybe someone explained it completely wrong to me?

Also, I though the idea of Lagom was that one should not pursue material wealth and success above what is "good enough".

Re: The World’s Most Innovative Economies

#84

Post by cesarbs »

kxyvr wrote: post #75
OskarS wrote: post #15

>The Swedes themselves promote an atmosphere of great personal ambition — unlike some European neighbors that emphasize the collective — and that’s a boon to innovation, he said. >“In the culture, people are super individualistic — this means that people have ideas and are very interested in pursuing them in this way in order to become wealthy,” said Henrekson. This is very true, and a thing which is often misunderst…

As an American who lived in Scandinavia for a few years and spent a fair amount of time in Sweden, I will say that Jantelagen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante takes some getting used to and has an affect on the business environment. At this point, I do believe that someone can be just as effective in business in Scandinavia as other places like the U.S., but my first two years were difficult until I unders…

Can you elaborate on the getting used to Jantelagen?

Re: The World’s Most Innovative Economies

#85

Post by kruipen »

brotherjerky wrote: post #53
kartan wrote: post #11

> Fresh ideas tend to pay off big in Sweden, even as the current government is less business-friendly and has imposed labor taxes that could crimp business investment Maybe it is that high taxes and citizen friendly social system the responsible for the success of the country. I moved to Sweden to work in the tech sector because I like how socially advanced is the country. Taxes are used to invest in society, and tha…

I think Americans tend to over-estimate the tax rate in Europe. California's top marginal rate (including state and payroll taxes) comes out to about 47%. It looks like Sweden tops out at 56%. But for that extra 9%, you get lots of services (health care, education, etc). I'd guess most Americans would take the tax hike to not worry about insurance, school loans, etc.

Better comparison is tax burden/spending as % of GDP:

                        Tax %   Gov. spending %
    United States       25.1    41.6
    Sweden              44.5    51.2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending

Re: The World’s Most Innovative Economies

#86

Post by mikeash »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #66
fsloth wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Swedes have much weaker bonds ... to their religious institutions" Most nordic people would call this progress.

Except Sweden is in the top 5 in anti-depressant use. I think the problem here is that we can dismiss religion wholesome, perhaps even all spirituality, but there's nothing to cushion the fall. Perhaps its a little arrogant to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I think its clear that reality is far from explained and selling people on the idea of a nihilistic existence that is meaningless may not be good for huma…

We should never be afraid of the truth. If scientific investigation doesn't support spirituality (it hasn't so far, and there's no sign of that changing) then we should be able to find better ways to satisfy people's needs rather than clinging to myths.

Re: The World’s Most Innovative Economies

#87

Post by ergothus »

specialist wrote: post #41
OskarS wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, yes, I totally agree! There's a very steep cost to this model of "Swedish-style individualism", and it's exactly the one you describe. Swedes have much weaker bonds to their extended family, their community, their religious institutions (etc.) and it's clearly not a good thing. Humans are social animals. I'm not necessarily arguing that Sweden is a model society and all other countries should adopt our ways. What…

Is there a way to measure the strength of those bonds? We in America are very individualistic (eg "I got mine, screw you!" because Freedom Markets™). Our elder care is terrible. Our nursing homes are bleak. (A buddy worked as the CFO for a nursing home corporation. Told me the biggest thing he learned: Don't end up in a nursing home.)

Little tip: "nursing homes" and "assisted living facilities" are different things. For one, nursing homes are regulated at the federal level, while assisted living is at the state level. I don't know enough to recommend for or against either, but it was complete news to me when I learned they were different, so anyone looking into them might benefit from that knowledge too.

Re: The World’s Most Innovative Economies

#88

Post by drzaiusapelord »

mikeash wrote: post #86
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except Sweden is in the top 5 in anti-depressant use. I think the problem here is that we can dismiss religion wholesome, perhaps even all spirituality, but there's nothing to cushion the fall. Perhaps its a little arrogant to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I think its clear that reality is far from explained and selling people on the idea of a nihilistic existence that is meaningless may not be good for huma…

We should never be afraid of the truth. If scientific investigation doesn't support spirituality (it hasn't so far, and there's no sign of that changing) then we should be able to find better ways to satisfy people's needs rather than clinging to myths.

Should we ever be afraid of admitting that science has a limited scope and things like spirituality could be outside its scope? That seems to be an acceptable fear right now.

Re: The World’s Most Innovative Economies

#89

Post by davidgay »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #64
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Example: Your grandmother will meet 100 different caregivers for home care in a year" French here. My grand pa is old and has caregivers (paid by his public health care + the local county) coming to his home every day, they're always the same 4-5 people. It's not hard giving people a steady job instead of using disposable contractors.

This probably says a lot more about the lack of upward mobility in the struggling french economy than anything else. Youth unemployment at a staggering 26% and almost no economic growth in the past few quarters. In more vibrant economies these jobs are seen as largely unattractive and often as a stepping stone to becoming a nurse's aid, nurse, doctor, etc. One of the major imported jobs in even closed societies like…

Counterexample: Switzerland, where it is also the same few people (my mother has daily caregivers), and the economy is doing fine.

Re: The World’s Most Innovative Economies

#90

Post by sidek »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #16
OskarS wrote: post #15

>The Swedes themselves promote an atmosphere of great personal ambition — unlike some European neighbors that emphasize the collective — and that’s a boon to innovation, he said. >“In the culture, people are super individualistic — this means that people have ideas and are very interested in pursuing them in this way in order to become wealthy,” said Henrekson. This is very true, and a thing which is often misunderst…

Yes! If the government can provide effective healthcare that should at least in theory be a great boon to social mobility and entrepreneurship as that means people can much more easily move to a new job. Tying healthcare to employers is antithetical to that. I suspect the real issue doing that in the US is simply because it's so varied. You've got several individual demographics within America that are bigger than Sw…

Diversity is no excuse for America's failures. Your nation is not as much an outlier in diversity as you would like to believe, and in the domain of health care you need only look north to Canada to see that this argument is nonsense.
Post reply on HN