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Seagate to Shut Down One of Its Largest HDD Assembly Plants

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Re: Seagate to Shut Down One of Its Largest HDD Assembly Plants

#81

Post by colek421 »

nine_k wrote: post #75
castratikron wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct in that hard drives are still an order of magnitude cheaper per unit of storage than solid state drives. Then again, tape drives are still an order of magnitude cheaper per unit storage than hard drives. When was the last time you saw a tape drive?

Where do you think Amazon Glacier data are stored? There's no point storing that on a high-IOPS, always-on medium, like an SSD or even HDD . Tapes are big, and still make complete sense for backup purposes, especially if you want to maintain latest 10-15 backup copies to choose from.

Not likely tape. Looks like evidence points to BXDL

https://storagemojo.com/2014/04/25/amazons-glacier-secret-bd...

Re: Seagate to Shut Down One of Its Largest HDD Assembly Plants

#82

Post by magila »

mathgeek wrote: post #80
magila wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think this is the same you haven't been paying attention to what's happening in the industry. Moore's Law as we know it is dead, shrinking the node size isn't cutting costs like it used to. A lot of people are still in denial over this, but it's going to have major repercussions in the IC industry.

I'm not referencing Moore's Law at all, nor am I hinging my argument on a single piece of input. I'm simply using decades of historical data to claim that it's more likely to continue downward than upward. Would you mind providing some data points that explicitly or implicitly predict an upward trend over the next 5-10 years?

I wouldn't go so far as to predict a long term upward trend, but prices are not going to continue their historic exponential drop. Like I said, cost reduction achieved by shrinking the node size (i.e. Moore's Law) was the main enabler for the exponential drop, but that trend has ended. This is common knowledge for anyone who follows the semiconductor industry, if you want data look it up yourself. Prices will surely still drop, but only incrementally. In particular, the PPU of SSDs will not be competitive with HDDs for the foreseeable future.

Re: Seagate to Shut Down One of Its Largest HDD Assembly Plants

#83

Post by mathgeek »

magila wrote: post #82
mathgeek wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not referencing Moore's Law at all, nor am I hinging my argument on a single piece of input. I'm simply using decades of historical data to claim that it's more likely to continue downward than upward. Would you mind providing some data points that explicitly or implicitly predict an upward trend over the next 5-10 years?

I wouldn't go so far as to predict a long term upward trend, but prices are not going to continue their historic exponential drop. Like I said, cost reduction achieved by shrinking the node size (i.e. Moore's Law) was the main enabler for the exponential drop, but that trend has ended. This is common knowledge for anyone who follows the semiconductor industry, if you want data look it up yourself. Prices will surely…

Ah, you're not talking about what I'm talking about. That's the issue here. I'm not predicting "historic exponential drop" at all. Glad we can agree that prices will still drop.

Re: Seagate to Shut Down One of Its Largest HDD Assembly Plants

#84

Post by lightedman »

fapjacks wrote: post #76
lightedman wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, you can chose to not join the class-action (or remove yourself form it) and pursue your own legal matter in court. The judge might try to fold your case into the class-action, but only if that class-action falls within their circuit's jurisdiction.

I would love to know more about this, but I'm completely ignorant about the process. I've put a couple thousand dollars into these specific models of HDD which have all failed within three years of purchase (including the replacement drives which failed during the warranty period). I am really tired of joining class action suits only to find that I get a check for a couple bucks afterwards. Especially because I've lo…

How many thousands are we talking? Depending on the state, you might be able to just walk this into small claims court. Some have a $5K limit, some have $10K, find out what your state's limit is for small claims. If your lost amount of money falls within that range, you don't need a lawyer and lawyers are not allowed in the courtroom for such cases generally speaking. Walk to the court house, file your paperwork with the court, have someone NOT related to the case serve the person you're suing and have them sign the appropriate proof of service paperwork, which the court clerk should give to you. After that, it's just waiting for the court day to be declared, both parties are notified by the court of that, and then you go into the court room on that date.

Usually, big companies don't show up in small claims, so they default, and you can simply file a lien on them and get your money back either by cash or by equipment. You get to literally walk in to their building, with cops by your side, and start taking stuff until the lien is settled. Or you can walk to their bank with the court order, and have it yanked directly from their account. I've done both. It's fun.

Re: Seagate to Shut Down One of Its Largest HDD Assembly Plants

#85

Post by Nullabillity »

Keyframe wrote: post #78
fapjacks wrote: post #2

Couldn't shake that Maxtor curse. Good riddance, I say. I'm involved in the Seagate class action over bad drives, but like many other class actions I've been involved in, I seriously doubt I'll see much of the thousands of dollars I've sunk into drives Seagate sold me knowing they had atrocious failure rates. Perhaps a five or ten dollar consolation check like usual.

Maxtor! Now, those were bad drives. I just went on to see the state of the industry. Didn't realise Maxtor bought Quantum (Fireballs were big back then) and then Seagate bought them. It's basically consolidated to Seagate vs WD vs small fishes (Hitachi, who else?). SSDs bring in IC vendors into the game.

Hitachi is also WD, as of 2012: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HGST

Re: Seagate to Shut Down One of Its Largest HDD Assembly Plants

#86

Post by fapjacks »

lightedman wrote: post #84
fapjacks wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to know more about this, but I'm completely ignorant about the process. I've put a couple thousand dollars into these specific models of HDD which have all failed within three years of purchase (including the replacement drives which failed during the warranty period). I am really tired of joining class action suits only to find that I get a check for a couple bucks afterwards. Especially because I've lo…

How many thousands are we talking? Depending on the state, you might be able to just walk this into small claims court. Some have a $5K limit, some have $10K, find out what your state's limit is for small claims. If your lost amount of money falls within that range, you don't need a lawyer and lawyers are not allowed in the courtroom for such cases generally speaking. Walk to the court house, file your paperwork with…

It makes perfect sense when you say it, but I hadn't thought of it that way. This does sound like fun. Thanks!

Re: Seagate to Shut Down One of Its Largest HDD Assembly Plants

#87

Post by lightedman »

fapjacks wrote: post #86
lightedman wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many thousands are we talking? Depending on the state, you might be able to just walk this into small claims court. Some have a $5K limit, some have $10K, find out what your state's limit is for small claims. If your lost amount of money falls within that range, you don't need a lawyer and lawyers are not allowed in the courtroom for such cases generally speaking. Walk to the court house, file your paperwork with…

It makes perfect sense when you say it, but I hadn't thought of it that way. This does sound like fun. Thanks!

Walk right in and take the CEO's computer off his desk while waving the lien in their face. Nothing more effective. EVER.

Re: Seagate to Shut Down One of Its Largest HDD Assembly Plants

#88

Post by ksec »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #52
ksec wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but when you are looking at Petabyte scale system, unless those data are Hot and IOPs are concerned, HDD still wins given it is 10x cheaper. And NAND has already hit the curve where it isn't going to get cheaper every year. NAND price is actually on the rise. Smaller Node is now actually more expensive, multiple layer are hard to yield. So relatively speaking the 10x gap between HDD and SSD wont change in the nex…

> the 10x gap between HDD and SSD It's a 4 to 6x gap [1]. [1] http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2404258,00.asp

1TB 2.5" HDD? You need to compare the sweet spot for SSD and HDD ( 3.5" ). And HDD easily outpace SSD, and 10x is only a generalization, in fact given the price of SSD is rising and HDD is slowing dropping, the sweet spot between the two is actually edging close to 20x soon.

Re: Seagate to Shut Down One of Its Largest HDD Assembly Plants

#89

Post by ksec »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #46
ksec wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but when you are looking at Petabyte scale system, unless those data are Hot and IOPs are concerned, HDD still wins given it is 10x cheaper. And NAND has already hit the curve where it isn't going to get cheaper every year. NAND price is actually on the rise. Smaller Node is now actually more expensive, multiple layer are hard to yield. So relatively speaking the 10x gap between HDD and SSD wont change in the nex…

It is not 10x cheaper, it is only cheaper to purchase initially. It is cheaper to power (NAND is more energy efficient than an electric motor), it is cheaper to maintain (solid state media does not suffer mechanical failures), and it is cheaper to use (each query on an SSD takes slightly less time than on spinning media). It's only 10x cheaper if you ignore those facts. Now, how you value those factors may vary. Also…

I see, may be you should tell Blackblaze to switch over to SSD for their business model?

Re: Seagate to Shut Down One of Its Largest HDD Assembly Plants

#90

Post by LeifCarrotson »

ksec wrote: post #89
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not 10x cheaper, it is only cheaper to purchase initially. It is cheaper to power (NAND is more energy efficient than an electric motor), it is cheaper to maintain (solid state media does not suffer mechanical failures), and it is cheaper to use (each query on an SSD takes slightly less time than on spinning media). It's only 10x cheaper if you ignore those facts. Now, how you value those factors may vary. Also…

I see, may be you should tell Blackblaze to switch over to SSD for their business model?

Backblaze is in the backup industry, where fetch times don't really matter. When you have customers sensitive to app response time buying stuff, or engineers limited by how many times they can go through the edit-test cycle in 8 hours and "test" relies on how fast your media responds, then it matters.
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